《光之议程》采访Sheldan Nidle
译注：Sheldan
Nidle出生于1946年11月11日。他一出生就被他的天狼星指导者Washta照顾着，并被经常带到银河联邦的飞船上学习。六个月的时候，他就能用心灵感应和他父母交流，三岁的时候就能阅读。他父亲是个拳击手，经常施展暴力，但是他却受到银河联邦的保护。但是，他14岁的时候，却请求他的银河联邦的朋友走开，留下他自己。他之后取得了两个硕士学位，并读了博士。他用把手放在书上就能瞬间记住整本书，读完了大英百科全书。他的偶像是尼古拉特斯拉，并也致力于自由能源的开发。他也讲述了哈雷彗星事件。这使得他与银河联邦重新连接。之后建立了现在的行星激活组织，出版了书等等。现在他每周更新来自银河联邦和扬升大师的信息，他的信息不是通过通灵而来，而是通过内在屏幕直接对话获得，甚至银河联邦会直接帮他在电脑上编辑语法用词等。
原文网址：
http://goldenageofgaia.com/2012/09/transcript-sheldan-nidle-on-the-light-agenda-part-22/
http://goldenageofgaia.com/2012/09/transcript-sheldan-nidle-on-the-light-agenda-part12/
全文录音：
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/inlight_radio/2012/08/09/the-light-agenda
正文：
Stephen Cook: My wonderful guest
today knows a great deal about our star brothers and sisters. And
yes, we, too, will be talking about Disclosure today.
Stephen Cook:
我今天的奇妙的客人了解许多关于星星兄弟姐妹的事情。今天我们也会谈及大揭露。
Sheldan Nidle is one of the
pioneers of galactic messages. He is a representative and lecturer
for the Galactic Federation of Light, and he has now been bringing
us direct communications from the Federation since
1992.
Sheldan
Nidle是银河消息（传递者）的先驱之一。他是光之银河联邦的一个代表和演讲者，他自从1992年就一直给我们带来来自银河联邦的直接通信。
And in fact Sheldan has been
meeting, conversing and sharing with the Federation and his own
personal guide Washta and traveling back and forth between
Federation ships for almost all his life.
He set up the Planetary
Activation Organization in 1997, and he has written several books,
including one of the first books I ever read, called You Are
Becoming a Galactic Human. I can highly recommend this book to any
one of you who would like to know the real history of our planet
and our race’s origins.
实际上，Sheldan一直与银河联邦以及他自己的个人指导者Washta会面、对话、分享信息；他几乎一生都在银河联邦的飞船之间来来回回。他1997年建立了“行星激活组织”（Planetary
Activation
Organization），已经出版了几本书，包括我最开始曾经读过那些书中的一本，书名叫《你正成为一个银河人》（You Are
Becoming a Galactic
Human）。我非常推荐这本书给那些想了解我们星球和人类起源的人们。
And, no, the Darwinian theory of
evolution is not in there.
并且，达尔文的进化论不在其中。（译注：达尔文的进化论没有正确描述人类起源，是错误的。）
Now, Sheldan has also written
three other books: Your First Contact; Selamat Ja — A Handbook for
Galactic Humans, and Your Galactic Neighbors.
现在，Sheldan有些了另外三本书：《你的第一次接触》（Your First
Contact）；《处在喜悦中——银河人类的手册》（Selamat Ja — A Handbook for Galactic
Humans）；以及《你的银河邻居》（Your Galactic Neighbors）。
He continues to post his weekly
message from the Federation and has made words like dratzo and
selamat ja part of our many of us lightworkers’ vocabularies, and
he also continues to host his monthly webinars on a variety of
subjects and topics. And this month — incredibly timely, of course
— he will be covering preparing for Disclosure.
他持续发布来自银河联邦每周一期的消息，使dratza和selamat
ja这样的（天狼星）词汇称为我们许多光之工作者的词汇表的一部分；他也持续主持每月一次的网络研讨会，讨论各种主题和话题。这个月——当然，非常及时——他将涵盖准备大揭露的话题。
Now, what you might not know
about Sheldan are the things we’re also going to be discussing
today, including his life, his childhood, his degree in political
science, his role in scientific programming and free energy, and
his fascination with the man who brought free energy to Earth,
Nikola Tesla, which also resulted in him making a documentary about
Tesla.
那么，你对Sheldan不了解的内容就是我们今天要采访的内容，包括他的生活、他的童年、他在政治科学的学位、以及在科学编程和自由能源方面的角色、以及他对将自由能源带到地球的人（尼古拉.特斯拉）的着迷，这也使得他做了一个关于特斯拉的纪录片。
Sheldan Nidle, I think that’s
the longest intro I’ve ever done on the Light Agenda! What a life!
And welcome, and thank you so much for joining us
today.
Sheldan
Nidle, 我想这可能是我在《光之议程》节目上所做过的最长的介绍啦！多么（丰富多彩的）人生啊！欢迎你，非常感谢你今天接受我们采访。
Sheldan Nidle: And I am very
glad to be here, Stephen. I’m sure we’re going to have a fun time
together.
Sheldan Nidle:
史蒂芬，我非常高兴来到这里。我可以确定我们今天将一起度过一段有趣的时光。
SC: Oh, I hope so! We always
have fun! [laugh] Now, you have been front and center for 20 years
now, and you are still every week keeping us abreast of the latest
information and the situations. What keeps you going?
SC：哦，我也希望是这样！我们总是很开心！[笑]
现在，你已经出列（走向公众视野）有20年了，并且，你现在仍然每周给我们更新最近的信息和最新的形势。是什么动力使你坚持这么做呢？
SN: I’m here to do certain
things, and one of them is to prepare the planet for contact. And
so as long as that is up there, and on schedule, here I
be.
SN：我来这要做某些事情，其中一个是使星球准备好（第一次）接触。只要这个任务还在那，并且在日程上，那么我就在这。
SC: Does that mean you’re going
to be out of a job when first contact’s made? [laugh]
SC：那意思是当第一次接触实现之后，你就失业了？[笑]
SN: They said I’m going to be
doing something else. So, I don’t know what that quite is yet, but
I suppose as we get closer to the actual event, I will find out
exactly what that is. But right now I can say I have concepts, but
I don’t know what really is really it, because you might say my new
orders haven’t been published in front of my face yet.
SN：他们说（之后）我将有别的事情做。所以，我还不知道是什么事情，但是我认为，随着我们离实际的时间越来越近，我将找到到底是什么事情。但是，现在，我可以说，我（对将来到底做什么事情）有些概念，但是，我不知道它到底是什么，因为你也许会说，我新的命令还没有传达到我呢。
SC: Okay. It’s been your
lifelong mission. Do you love what you do?
SC:OK，你一生都在执行这个任务。你爱你所做的事情吗？
SN: Well, it’s been
all-consuming, and I’ve been doing this. So this, to me, is kind of
like what I’ve been doing. People can say, “Well, what do you do?”
and I’ll say, “I do this, because that’s what I do,”
so…
SN：哦，它一直是费时费力的工作，并且我一直在做这个。所以，这对于我来说是一种“喜欢”我所做的事情。人们会说，“哦，你是做什么工作的？”，我会说，“我做这个，因为那就是我所做的事情”，所以。。。
SC: But, okay, so, so, it’s not
just that you love it, it’s kind of like, well, this is my
job.
SC：但是，ok，所以，那不是那种你爱它，是一种喜欢，哦，这是我的工作。
SN: This is my job, and I have a
passion for it. It’s very fascinating. Of course, it gives me a
very odd kind of life, but I just … it’s me. It’s become
me.
SN：这是我的工作，我对它有激情。它非常迷人。当然，它给了我一个非常古怪类型的生活，但是我就是…那是我。它使我成为我。
SC: Okay. Now, unlike many
messengers and channelers, you’re not sitting there trancing.
You’re not being asked to take dictation. The messages that you
share with all of us have, and always have been, actual
conversations where you’re involved with I think it’s a committee
of around about 20 members of the Galactic Federation. And you’re,
like, in a meeting, and then they tell you bits and pieces of what
they all wish to share. So, is that how it works?
SC：OK.
那么，你不是像许多信使或者通灵人那样坐在那出神，你没有被要求做听写。你和我们分享的消息一直是与银河联邦的实际对话，你参与这个与大概有20个银河联邦成员的对话。并且，你像在一个会议中，然后，他们他们一点一点一段一段地告诉他们共同希望分享的（消息）。那么，这是它工作的方式吗？
SN: Right. They all pick up what
they want to do in certain paragraphs, and then they come on and
tell me those things. Because that’s my job. I’m the messenger. So,
my job is to take the dictation as best as I can, and of course
they did pick a guy who was just a hunt and peck typer. I’m just a
one finger — a one finger magician with the keys.
SN：对。他们都拿出他们想要做的放在某些段落中，然后他们过来告诉我那些事情。因为那是我的工作。我是那个信使。所以，我的工作就是尽可能好的记录，当然，他们确实挑了一个家伙，这个家伙是一个看着键盘打字的打字员。我只是（他们的）一个手指头——一个用手指头敲键的魔术师。
SC: [laugh]
SC：[笑]
SN: So, I’m always looking down
at the keyboard, unlike people who are trained typists who can
actually see what they’re doing.
SN：所以，我总是低头看着键盘。不像受过训练的打字员，他们可以实际上看见自己在做什么。（译注：意思是说，专业打字员可以一边看着屏幕上的字，一边敲键盘。）
SC: But in taking that — all
right, we said it wasn’t dictation because they’re actually
conversing with you, but when you’re sitting there is it really
difficult because you’ve got 20 people speaking to you at the same
time?
SC：但是，在做那个——好吧，我说它不是“听写”是因为他们实际上在与你对话，但是当你坐在那的时候，它真的很困难吧，因为有20个人同时跟你说话？
SN: Well, we’ve learned how to
work out the general concepts of an etiquette for how it’s done.
So, because of that, it’s not that difficult. But yes, we are
constantly … as I’m typing we are constantly carrying on a
conversation, because I’ll be asking questions about what that one
person or a couple of people are talking about. So, and they’ll all
be … they sometimes complain to me a little bit, saying, “You’re a
little too slow,” or I talk too much…. [laugh]
SN：哦，我们已经学会了如何弄清楚一些如何完成这个工作的规矩的基本概念。所以，既然这样，它就不是那么难。但是，是的，我们不断地。。。当我在打字的时候，我们不断地进行着对话，因为我一直问问题，问某一个人或某几个人正在说着什么。所以，他们都。。。他们有时对我有点抱怨，“你有点太慢了”或者，我说得太多了。。。[笑]
SC: [laugh] So they tell you to
shut up, do they?
SC：[笑]
所以，他们告诉你闭嘴，是吗？
SN: No, they don’t. They do it
in a nice and kind way. They don’t say it that way. They just say,
will say things like, “Well, I’m going to go over it again for the
second time. Now, please, keep your attention on what I’m saying…”
because they can see what I’m doing. I mean, they … they do what
the computer does, which is correct words, but they also correct
the syntax and everything, so…
SN：不，他们不会。他们以一种和蔼的方式说。他们不会那么说。他们只会说，会说一些事情像，“哦，我将第二次检查这篇文章一遍。现在，请把你的注意力保持在我正在说的内容上。。。”因为，他们能看到我在做什么。我的意思是，他们。。。他们做一些电脑做的事情，包括纠正单词，但是他们也纠正语法和每个东西，所以。。。
SC: Oh, well, that’s
good.
SC：噢，那挺好的。
SN: It’s interesting. Sometimes
I’ll be writing and I’ll stop for a second, and I’ll see the screen
changing. So it’s kind of an odd thing. But I’m — I’m used to that.
That doesn’t freak me out either. I just keep going. So, I’m used
to it.
SN：那很有趣。有时，我写几个字然后停下来一会儿，然后我会看到屏幕上正在变（译注：意思说，sheldan停下来没打字，但是屏幕上的字还在变，就好像键盘上有一只看不见摸不着的手在打字，实际上是那些和他对话的银河联邦成员在修改内容）。所以，那是一种奇怪的事情。但是，我——我已经习惯了。那也不会令我（觉得奇怪不解而）崩溃。我只是继续。所以，我习惯它了。
SC: So, with that committee of
20, do you know who they all are? Are they regulars?
SC：那么，那个20人的委员会，你知道他们是谁吗？他们是常客吗？
SN: No, they change every
week.
SN：不，他们每周都在变。
SC: Okay. So, do you get to see
them at all? Are you, like, when …
SC：OK。那么，都有有机会看到他们所有人吗？你可以，就像，当。。。
SN: Right.
SN：对。
SC: Yeah?
SC：真的?
SN: Well, with the, with the
system they’ve set up with me, I have the equivalent of like a 3D
conference call in my head. So I have like the equivalent in my
head of a 3D video phone. So I hear them crystal clear, I see them
crystal clear, and in fact in 3D. So I don’t just see them like you
do on these computers, I don’t just see them as a flat thing, I see
them as real people, with depth.
SN:
哦，用那个他们和我建立的系统，我在我脑中有类似于像3D电话会议那样的东西。所以，我在脑中有像类似于一个3D视频电话的东西。所以，我听他们非常清楚，我看他们也很清楚，而且实际上是3D的。所以，我没有像你们在这些电脑上看到的那样看到他们，我没有仅仅以平面的方式看到他们，我看到他们是一个真实的人，有景深的。（译注：我猜sheldan说的是“内在屏幕”(inner
screen)，小祖母在她的书《给多彩一族的消息》中有提到，她靠着内在屏幕引路，从一个地方开车到另一个地方去开会；塔塔在他的书《给和平一次机会》中也有提到中国有人体科学研究所在深入研究和实验。内在屏幕传递信息和通灵传导信息不同。）
SC: Wow. And what do they look
like?
SC：哇，他们看起来是什么样呢？
SN: Big humans.
SN：长得很大的人类。
SC: Okay.
SC：OK
SN: All of them are…. They
usually are dressed in different color jumpsuits, but the Galactic
Federation sets it up that each star nation has a different color.
They all have different pastels or dark colors. And they’re … it’s
like I said, they’re mostly in jumpsuits, and they just … they sit
there and we converse. Because they’re used to using … telepathic
communications, I guess would be the best way to say it. As …
because they’ve been doing it since they were born. So to them it’s
no new, unique thing.
SN：他们所有人都…他们通常穿着不同的连身衣裤，但是银河联邦规定每一个星星国度有一个不同的颜色。他们都有不同的柔和色和暗色。他们…就像我说的，他们大部分穿连身衣，他们只是…他们坐在那，我们交谈。因为他们习惯用...心电感应通讯，我猜这可能是它最好的描述方式了。当…因为他们自从出生就一直那样交流。所以，对他们来说，那不是什么新奇稀罕的事。
And, so, that’s what we do. I
tend to talk aloud more than they do. They … matter of fact,
sometimes they will ask me to not speak that way, to just be quiet
and just talk in their head. Because they can pick it up either
way, but they would prefer it that way because they’re more used to
that form of communication. So, we go back and forth with that. So
a lot of times I’m not saying anything except in my head. Other
times I’m speaking.
那就是我们做的事情。我倾向于大声说话，比他们声大。他们…事实上，有时他们会请我不要以那样的方式说话，仅仅安静一点，仅仅在他们头脑中说话。因为他们可以用任何一种方式收到，但是他们更愿意心电感应方式，因为他们更习惯于那样形式的交流。所以，我们用心电感应来来回回。所以，很多时候，我什么都不说只是在头脑中“说”；另一些时候，我说话。
I like to … I’ve learned since I
was a kid to speak aloud. So, people maybe think kind of weird,
when they watch me doing this, this stuff. They probably say, well,
he’s typing and he’s talking to somebody, and I don’t see anybody.
[laugh]
我喜欢…从我还是个孩子的时候我就学会了大声说话。所以，当他们看着我这么做的时候，人们也许认为某种怪异。他们也许会说，哦，他正在打字，他正和某人说话，并且我没看到有人。[笑]
SC: So, I guess it…. That’s no
different to any of us walking down the street on our mobile phone,
I might add. [laugh]
SC:
所以，我猜它…也许我可以补充，那与我们走在大街上对着手机讲没什么区别。[笑]
SN: Oh, no. It’s
not.
SN:哦，不，不是。
SC: And you just said they’re in
pastel colors. That surprises me. Because I would have thought
everybody was in very bright colors.
SC：你刚说他们穿柔和色的衣服。我感到惊讶。我原以为每个人都穿着非常明亮颜色的衣服。
SN: They’re … they’re from …
they go from a very bright blue to a very pastel light blue, to all
different colors like that.
SN：他们…他们是…他们从非常明亮的蓝色到一个非常柔和的浅蓝色，不同的颜色都像那样…
SC: Wow. Okay. Now…
Sorry?
SC:
哇，ok，那么…继续…
SN: It’s very, very colorful. I
mean, if you look … if you were to see them like I do, you would
see, wow, this is really a complete spectrum of
colors.
SN：那是非常非常富有色彩的。我意思是，如果你看…如果你能够像我这样看到他们，哇，你将看到这才是真正的完整的颜色谱。
SC: So it’s like a
rainbow?
SC：所以，它像一个彩虹？
SN: Yes, it is.
SN：是的。
SC: Wow. So, when you’ve been
writing your books as well, though, have they been there as a
committee assisting you when you’re actually sitting there
writing?
SC:
哇。那么，当你写书的时候，他们是在旁边作为一个成员来协助你吗，当你实际上坐在那写的时候？
SN: They come in and they help
me with it, yes.
SN:他们进来，并且他们帮助我写它，是的。
SC: Um-hmm?
SC:
嗯？
SN: In fact, that’s how I … how
I do these particular things. I, when I was doing chapters it would
be on a certain subject, so I would have them come in and they
would narrate it for me. So I would start just doing the same
process we were just talking about. They come in, they give it to
me as one sentence, three, four sentences, whatever, paragraph, and
we keep going that way.
SN:
实际上，那就是我做这些特定的事情的方式。我，当我写某些章节的时候，它与某一个主题有关，那么，我会让他们进来，然后他们会为我叙述。所以，我仅仅是开始做跟我们刚才讨论的一样的过程。他们进来（译注：进到头脑中，即“内在屏幕”中），他们给我一个句子、三句、四句，诸如此类，杜奥罗，然后我们持续以那样的方式进行。
SC: And I suppose when you’re
writing the book you have access to the particular expert who’s …
within that topic that you’re actually penning that chapter
about?
SC：我觉得，当你写书的时候，你可以接触到特定的专家…这个专家是在你实际上正在写的章节的话题内的专家。
SN: Like, they will have … if
I’m talking a certain thing, or talking about a certain thing in
that book, that chapter, for instance, or that paragraph in that
chapter, or that section, the person who they have decided to be
the in-house expert on this particular subject is there to do the
narration.
SN:就像，他们将…如果我说起某一件事，或者例如我在那本书、那个章节或者那个章节中的那一段、或者那一节中谈论某一件事，那个他们认为是这个特定主题的专家的那个人就出现在那进行叙述。
SC: Wow. I’m so envious that you
have access to this incredible and direct
communication!
SC：哇，我是如此羡慕你可以直接接触这一难以置信的并且直接的交流！
SN: Well, it’s something that to
me is like, you know, it’s normal. It’s not something that seems
odd…. In the beginning it may have to me, but that was so long ago
that I just … this … like I said at the beginning, this is what I
do. I’m the person in charge of being the messenger, and this is,
this is what I do. So…
SB:
哦，你知道不，它对我来说就像很正常的事情。它不是奇怪的事情…最开始的时候，它也许对我来说有点奇怪，但是，那是如此长时间之前的事情以至于我..这…就像我开始说的那样，这就是我所做的事情。我是那个负责当信使的那个人，并且这就是我所做的。所以…
SC: Well, when you first wrote
You Are Becoming a Galactic Human, you talked about our true
history. And I have to say when I read that, while it totally was
the opposite of everything I’d ever been taught at school or
anything I’ve ever read, in, you know, encyclopedias or whatever,
or anything I’ve ever seen on TV, it rang true for me. And I
thought, I remember thinking to myself, oh, my gosh! We’ve really
been lied to all this time!
SC:哦，当你最初写《你正编程一个银河人》（You Are Becoming a
Galactic
Human），你谈到我们真正的历史。我不得不说，当我读到那的时候，它与我学校被教授的东西完全相反，或者与在百科全书里读到的任何东西相反，你知道吗，或者无论什么或者任何我在电视上看到的东西相反，（但是）它对我来说听上去真实可靠。那时我认为，我记得我在心里对自己说，哦，天哪！我们实际上一直在受骗！
SN: What we have to begin to
understand is that all the stuff that you may have heard in biology
or anthropology or anything related to that is wrong. We did not
evolve as from primitive apes all the way up to these advanced,
sentient beings that we are today; we actually evolved on another
world, which is a planet in Vega, which is a star that’s roughly
about 25 light years away from us. Vega is a part of another system
which is called in English the Harp.
SN：我们不得不开始理解的是，你们在生物学或者人类学或者任何与之相关的所有东西都是错的。我们没有从原始类人猿一路进化成今天我们这样高级的有感情的存有；实际上我们是在另外一个世界上进化的，它在织女星，是一个离我们大约25光年远的星星。织女星是另一个星系的一部分，这个系统在英语中叫做天琴座（Harp）。
And so what happened was we
moved out of that into other systems. The first one to be
colonized, with the permission of the local hierarchies in that
area, was Sirius, which is a multi-star system. Sirius A is the
bright big blue star that everybody sees. Around it are a bunch of
smaller stars, almost near dwarf in size. These are Sirius B, C and
D.
那么，所发生的事情是我们从那个星星中搬出来到其他星系中。经过当地族裔的同意，第一个定居的地方是天狼星，是一个多星系统。天狼星A是每个人都能看到的明亮的蓝色星星。在它周围是一群小一点的行星，在大小上接近小矮子。这些是天狼星B、C和D。
Sirius B is where humans came.
We came roughly around 4.3 million years ago. We became fully
conscious beings, we moved quickly through technology into very
advanced technologies, we learned to unite with other light species
that were non-humans, and we created our first groups of what later
became, what is now the Galactic Federation of Light.
天狼星B是人类来自的地方。我们大约430万年前来到这。我们变成完全有意识的存有，我们快速地通过科技进步到更先进的科技；我们学习与其他光之物种联合，他们不是人类；我们创造我们最初的团体，之后变成了现在的光之银河联邦。
If you want the details and the
step by step of this procedure, read the book.
如果你想要知道细节，以及这个过程中一步一步发展，请读这本书。
SC: Yeah. Exactly! [laugh] Okay,
so it’s been a gradual, gradual move back to the light, but it’s
certainly sped up in the last few years.
SC：是的，确实！[笑]
Ok，那么，这是一个逐渐、逐渐回到光的过程，但是，这个过程确实在过去几年加速了。
SN: Right. This is the time when
we’re supposed to make the big move, so to speak the jump, the
shift, whatever conceptual names you come up with for it. We are
now at the edge of a time when the Anunnaki and their groups on
this planet — the various minions they have, which I now call the
dark cabal in my updates, whose purpose was to do two things — step
aside, and encourage, by bringing out all the hidden technology and
other things that they had kept hidden, into our
knowledge.
SN：对。这个是我们被期望取得巨大进步的时代，可以这么说，是一个跳跃、一个转变，无论你为它想起一个什么什么灵性名字。我们现在在一个时代的边缘，这个时代是阿努那奇和他们的团体在这个星球上——他们有各种奴才，现在在我的更新中称为阴谋集团，他们的目的是要做两件事——让开一点，并且鼓励，通过推出所有的隐藏的科技和其他他们一直藏匿的东西，使之转化为我们的知识。
And that would also allow us,
through Disclosure, to see basically that we are not just a limited
being that has a small mortal lifespan of a few decades, to a being
that actually has the potential to being a physical angel and being
a person who has an immortal life, and who now understands the
nature of how heaven works — the basic laws of heaven, the rules of
heaven — and can take those laws and move them into this physical
world and apply them and then become a true co-creator with heaven
of unfolding the divine plan.
通过大揭露，我们也能够从根本上看到，我们不是仅仅是一个受限的存有，只有一小段几十年的人类寿命，而是一个实际上有潜力成为物理天使的存有，有潜力拥有一个不朽的生命，现在他们正懂得天堂如何工作的本质——天堂的基本法令，天堂的规则——并且能够带上那些法令，并把他们带到这个物理世界并应用他们，然后成为天堂的一个真正的共同创造者，去展开神圣计划。
And this is what we are really
meant to be. We are now returning to all those things that we are
meant to be. So …
这是我们真正要打算要成为的。我们现在正回归到所有那些我们打算成为的样子。所以…
SC: And about time!
[laugh]
SC:
那么，是什么时间呢！[笑]
SN: If I had my way, it would
have happened yesterday. But anyway…
SN：照我说，它本应该昨天就发生了。但是，不管怎样…
SC: Well, funny talking about
that, though, because in your message this week you’ve talked about
the fact, or the Galactic Federation have talked about the fact,
that many of us have been feeling that nothing is happening — you
know: Where is this change? Where is what’s happening? Why can’t I
see it? Why can’t I feel it? — when in fact a lot is
happening.
SC：哦，那么说很有意思，然而，因为在你这周的消息中你谈到事实，或者银河联邦谈到了关于事实，我们中的许多人实际上感觉什么都没发生——你知道吗，变化在哪？正在发生的事情在哪？为什么我看到不它？为什么我感觉不到它？——而实际上此时许多事情正在发生。
SN: Oh, there is — there are
tons of things happening on this planet. Like in Mexico we have
this huge set of demonstrations going on everyday about changing
the government, about the fact that their last election was not
real, and we need to redo this in a fair way.
SN：哦，确实有——在这个星球上有无数的事情正在发生。像在墨西哥，每天我们有一大套实证在进行，关于改变政府，关于他们最后的选举不是真实的事实，我们需要以更公平的方式重新进行。
You have things going on in
Iceland, where Iceland has completely overthrown its old
government, has told the cabal banks to take a leap and has thrown
the leaders of these banks into jail, and is now writing a
constitution based upon what people who are elected by other people
in that nation decide is what needs to be in the constitution, and
that that constitution will have in it things that prevent what the
banks and what the Anunnaki and their minions were doing in Iceland
to never happen again.
你们看到冰岛的事情在进行，冰岛完全抛弃了它旧的政府，告诉阴谋集团银行进行巨大改变，并把这些银行的领导人扔进监狱，现在正改写宪法，是根据那个国家的人民选举出来的人们决定什么内容需要出现在宪法中，那部宪法会包括一些防止银行所做所为、阿努那奇所做所为、以及他们的奴才正在冰岛的所做作为绝不会再次发生。
And we have a massive debt
problem all over the planet. The entire EU, the European Union, is
on the verge of collapse because the Euro has a hard time being
supported when it has virtually un-amounts of monstrous amounts of
debt that are so unspeakably huge, that if everybody knew what was
really happening they would prob — the world would probably be in
panic.
在整个星球上我们有一个大规模债务问题。整个欧盟，在崩溃的边缘，因为欧元预期有一段困难的时间，它实际上有无数的巨量的债务，是如此难以形容的巨大，以致于如果每个人都知道真正在发生什么，那么他们大概——世界也许会处于恐慌。
Luckily they don’t know, but
they do know that something is happening. There is a whole new
system that is going on now. There are new … new banking
regulations that are slowly making their way to the
top.
幸运地是，他们不知道，但是他们确实知道某些事在发生着。有一整套新系统现在要进行。有新的…新的银行规则，正慢慢地开辟道路到顶端。
Occurring on our planet right
now is a massive change, but it has not yet bubbled over to where
it becomes this massive thing. But is nothing happening? No. Lots
and lots of things are happening all over the planet.
在我们星球上现在所发生的事情是大规模转变，但是它还没有达到这个大规模事情的顶点。但是，是什么都没发生吗？全球许多许多事情在进行。
Ireland, with its studies which
start the court case against the banks and their debt; Greece,
which is in problems right now, which mirror everything else in
Europe. I mean, Spain, Portugal, France and Germany are not that
far behind in doing all the incredible problems of just living that
is going on in Greece.
爱尔兰，随着它的研究，开始了对银行和他们的债务的庭审；希腊，现在陷于麻烦中，映射了欧洲其他国家的事。我的意思是，西班牙、葡萄牙、法国、德国，他们离着希腊现在上演的那所有难以置信的问题也不远了。
So, the only way out if you
start looking at it country by country, continent by continent, is
that we need massive debt forgiveness, we need a new system. The
present system has basically failed; it’s just hanging on because
the minions know that to change the system as drastically as is
required will mean that they’ll lose their power. So they do not
wish to do that.
所以如果你开始一个国家一个国家、一个大洲一个大洲的看着它，唯一的解决方式是我们需要大规模的债务免除，我们需要一个新系统。当前的系统基本上失灵了；它只是坚持着，因为那些奴才们知道，为了按照所需去巨大地变革那个系统，那将意味着他们将失去权力。所以，他们不希望那样做。
So, the tipping points, the
tipping scale, you might say, is now happening.
所以，你可以说，关键点正在发生。
SC: Which is fantastic. Now,
speaking of history, I’m not sure that many people know your true
history itself. Now, you were born in New York City on November the
11th, so an 11/11 baby — I wonder if that’s prophetic or not — in
1946. Your grandparents were immigrants from Germany, and because
you basically spent a lot of your early life growing up with your
grandparents, you actually spoke as a child with a German accent,
which surprised me.
SC：非常好。现在，说说历史，我确定不是许多人知道你真正的历史本身。你1946年11月11日出生在纽约市，所以是一个11.11婴儿——我好奇是这是否是预言性的。你的祖父母是来自德国的移民，因为你基本上很大一部分早年生活是和你祖父母一块长大，孩子的时候你实际上有德语口音，这让我很吃惊。
And your father … well, you’ve
said that your family was quite dysfunctional, but your father was
quite violent and he would actually beat you senseless as a child.
So can you tell me a little bit about growing up, what that was
like?
你父亲…你说过你的家庭非常不和谐，但是你的父亲是相当暴力，在你是个小孩的时候他会毫无道理的打你。那么，你可以告诉我一点你的成长过程吗，那是什么样的？
SN: It was like living in two
worlds. It was crazy. Okay. He was a man who lived in a world of
violence. He was a former boxer, boxer trainer, and promoter. And
feeling very dysfunctional, and he took it out with violence. And
of course my …
SN：那像生活在两个世界似的。那很疯狂。OK。他是一个生活在暴力世界的人。它是一个前拳击手，拳击教练，以及促进者。感觉非常不和谐，然后它用暴力发泄它。当然我…
SC: And often on
you.
SC：（暴力）通常（发泄）在你身上？
SN: Yes. Especially when we
moved from New York City to Buffalo, New York, which was where my
mother was originally from. He suddenly felt isolated, and then he
became even more violent. And what further made the whole thing
worse for him was all the phenomena that started occurring almost
immediately after my birth.
SN：是的。尤其是当我们从纽约市搬到纽约州的水牛城的时候，那里是我母亲的家乡。他突然感觉被孤立了，然后变得甚至更暴力。对他来说使整个事情变得更糟糕的是，所有现象似乎都是在我出生之后立即发生的。
SC: Okay. Now, your mother,
though — and we’re going to come back to some of those things — but
your mother was a mathematical genius.
SC：ok。那么，你的母亲，尽管——我们退回一点说说那些事情——但是，你母亲是一个数学天才。
SN: Right. She wo — she twice
won the Jesse Ketchum Award in Buffalo Public Schools, which meant
you could go to college basically free. Now, it was in the
Depression, and of course she was — she was basically keeping the
books for her father’s business. My grandfather on my mother’s side
was a baker, and he had come from the German liners. He was — he
basically left the German liners in the early 1900s. I think he
came to Buffalo originally around 1906, 1908, some time-line around
there, and he of course started a bakery, a German
bakery.
SN：对。她在水牛城的公立学校两次获得Jesse
Ketchum奖，那个奖意味着你可以基本上免费上大学。那是，是在大萧条时候（译注：1929年经济大萧条），当然她——她保存好教科书，为她父亲的生意做事。我外公是一个烤面包师，他工作在德国的运输轮船上。20世纪早期他离开德国运输轮船。我想他最初来到水牛城是在1906年、1908年左右，那个时候的时间段，他当然开了一个面包店，一个德国面包店。
And of course I grew up with
baking. And my mother was an excellent baker. She wasn’t much of a
cook, but she was an excellent baker.
当然，我伴随着烘焙长大。我妈妈是一个出色的烤面包师。她不是一个很好的厨师，但是一个出色的面包师。
SC: So, in fact, though, you’ve
got a mother who’s a fina — or, sorry — a mathematical genius, and
a father who came from a quite pugilistic background, and yet the
two of them really loved you from the moment you were
born.
SC：所以，实际上，你有一个数学天才的母亲以及一个有着拳击家背景的父亲，然而，他们实际上从你出生的那一刻起就非常爱你。
SN: They had a love-hate
relationship with me. It was really weird. I had this … It was
insane, actually, as far as I’m concerned ….
SN：他们和我是“既爱又恨”的关系。那真的很怪异。我有这个…实际有关我，那是疯狂的。
SC: [laugh] In what
way?
SC：[笑]在那种方式上？
SN: My dad would take great
deference to me. My mother would take great deference to me.
Because they were afraid of me because of the stuff that happened
around me, the phenomena. The … so …
SN：我爸爸会极其敬重我。我妈妈也会极其镜中我。因为他们怕我，因为我周围发生的事情，现象。所以…
SC: Well, talking about that
phenomena, your first extraterrestrial UFO experiences actually
began quite soon after birth. And you were quite threatening to
them in many ways, as in your parents.
SC:哦，说说那个现象，你第一次外星人UFO经历实际上在出生之后很快就发生了。并且，你在许多方面上对他们相当有威胁，就你父母而言。
SN: My parents had never seen
blue lights flashing in their homes. They had never seen strange
beings come in and leave. They had never seen the fact that I
suddenly was there, and I wasn’t there. They also saw that I had
the ability to move things around. They also saw I had the ability
to talk to them even when I was a small child and couldn’t quite
talk yet — when I was like six months old I would be able to
telepathically speak to them.
SN：我父母（之前）从未看过蓝色的光在他们的家中闪烁。他们（之前）从来没有见过奇怪的存有进进出出。他们（之前）从未见过那个事实，我突然在那，然后突然又没了。他们也看到我有能力（译注：使用意念）让东西来回移动。他们也看到甚至在我非常小还不能说话的时候，大概六个月的时候，就有能力和他们说话，我能够用心灵感应能力和他们说话。
That caused a great deal of
difficulty with them. They were totally confused by
this.
那给他们造成了许多困扰。他们完全对此感到困惑。
SC: Well, you would be, though,
because in that day, in that age, it would almost be like you
thought you had — and I don’t like this word — but almost like you
had a devil child come into your home.
SC：哦，你会，因为在那一天，在那个年纪，那几乎是像你想象的那样——我不喜欢这个词——几乎像有了一个“魔鬼”小孩来到家中。
SN: Probably. You could see, you
could see that. Of course, the thing that probably got them was
when … if they would try to get too violent with me, there would be
this energy around me. So they couldn’t do really anything
initially.
SN：也许吧。你可以看到，你可以看到那个。当然，使他们困扰的事情也许是当…如果他们试着对我太暴力，那会有这个能量围绕着我。所以，他们实际上做不了他们想做的。
SC: So, when did visitation
begin for you?
SC：那么，这个对你的访问是什么时候开始的？
SN: From the
beginning.
SN：从（出生）开始的时候
SC: Okay. So, almost from the
moment you were born, and you can remember that
vividly?
SC：ok。那么，几乎从你出生的时候，你可以生动地记着那些事？
SN: Yes.
SN：对
SC: And what were those first
visits like? Because you had a guide. His name was
Washta
SN：那些最初来访的人是什么样？因为你有一个指导者。他的名字叫Washta。
SC: … and he instantly made
himself known to you.
SC：…并且他不断地让你知道他。
SN: He made himself known
instantly. He just took over — he said his job was to be my mentor.
And that’s what he was.
SN：他不断地让我知道他。他接管过来——他说他的工作是成为我的指导者（导师）。那就是他的身份了。
What happened was I, I began to
believe that their world, meaning the world of the ships, was the
real world, and the stuff I was encountering every day in my life
on Earth, whatever incidents or whatever things going on to me
seemed totally crazy. I could not understand why people were
violent. I could not understand at all what was going
on.
所发生的事情是，我开始相信他们的世界（意思是飞船上的世界）是真实的世界；而我在地球生活中每天遇到的东西，不管什么事件或者什么事情发生发生，对我来说似乎都太疯狂了。我根本不能理解到底在发生什么。
SC: So this is even as a very,
very young child?
SC：那么，这是甚至在你是一个非常非常小的时候吗？
SN: Very young child. I did not
und …. I felt like I was like a Chinese coolie who had escaped
across the ocean and suddenly wound up in San
Francisco.
SN：非常小的时候。我不理解…我感觉像一个中国苦力逃跑跨过大洋，然后突然出现在旧金山。
SC: [laugh] So tell me about
Washta. I mean, I know that you’ve said he came to you in blue and
purple robes. But what was his energy like, and what did he do for
you when you were a baby?
SC：[笑]，告诉我关于Wasshta。我指的是，我知道你已经说了，他穿着蓝紫色长袍来到你那里。但是，他的能量是什么样的，当你还是一个婴儿的时候，他为你做了什么？
SN: It was like being with an
angel. It was the most beautiful, fantastic, incredible experience.
I cannot say enough about that energy. It was like being in
heaven.
SN：那感觉像和一个天使在一起。那是最美丽、最不可思议、最难以置信的经历。我怎么赞扬那个能量都不过分。像在天堂一样。
SC: Wow.
SC：哇哦~
SN: …it was heaven expanded. You
had no fear. You had no anything, except feeling this unbelievable,
incredible joy.
SN：…那是天堂的延伸。你没有恐惧，什么都没有，除了感觉这难以置信、无法相信的喜悦。
SC: Because he told you you were
Sirian, but through him you also had contact with Andromedans and
Pleiadians. And he helped take you to and from the ships even as a
young child. How did you travel to and from those
ships?
SC：因为他告诉你，你是天狼星人，但是通过他你也接触了仙女座人和昴宿星人。在你还是一个非常小的小孩时，他帮助你进出飞船。你是如何进出那些飞船的？
SN: We teleported.
SN：我们用心灵传输。
SC: But he also placed you in a
bit of a heavy trance?
SC：但是，他也使你进入某种深度“出神”状态？
SN: They did when I was young.
Was they said the best way for me to teleport was to do it
gradually. And so they would put me in a stasis state, which would
put me to sleep. And then I would go … and the only sense I would
have.… When I finally grew older and I finally went to … I used to
love to go up to the top of the Empire State Building, and the way
the elevator feels just about the time before it stops? That’s what
it felt like.
SN：在我小时候，他们这么做。那时他们说对我来说心灵传输的最好的方式是逐渐地去实现它。所以，他们会使我处于停滞状态，那使我进入睡眠。然后，我会…我会有的唯一的感觉…当我之后长大一点，我最后去…
过去我常常爬上帝国大厦大楼，那种乘电梯的感觉就像那时间一样，之后停下来（译注：心灵传输的感觉就像时空隧道的感觉？）。那是我对它的感觉。
SC: Okay.
SC：OK。
SN: …..wonderful feeling. And so
I’d have two minutes of that, and then you would be there. And the
energy was immediate, and you would feel it, and you would no
longer feel any, like I said, any fear, any limitations. You were
put in a special state on that ship where you were completely able
to be almost like a fully conscious being. And so I began adapting
that that reality.
SN：….奇妙的感觉。我会经历2分钟那种感觉，然后你就在那了。能量是立即的，有会感觉到它，就像我说的，你不会再感觉到任何恐惧、任何限制。在那个飞船上，你被置于一个特殊状态中，你完全感觉像一个完全有意识的存有。所以，我开始接纳那个现实。
SC: And they instantly started
teaching you, though, didn’t they? You were six months old knowing
how to speak or to telepathically speak. They downloaded
information to you the whole time?
SC：他们立即开始教你，是吗？你六个月的时候，知道如何说话或者如何心灵感应说话。整个时间里，他们下载信息给你？
SN: Right. I felt this
information. And when I got a bit older, when I got a few years
old, like two or three or four, and to have full-out use of their
educational system, which is … I call it the learning wall. They
would take you to the ship, they would put you in this special
chair where you felt absolutely comfortable, they would turn the
energy on on the wall of light, and you would telepathically feel,
and you would see … it was like in 3D television, which I
experience right now. That’s why when I experienced it after what I
did with the learning wall it didn’t feel anything odd or strange
or unusual.
SN：对。我感到这个信息。当我长大一点的时候，当我几岁的时候，2、3岁或者4岁的时候，为了充分使用他们的教育系统，我称之为“学习墙”。他们会把你带到飞船上，他们会把你放进这个特殊的椅子，在椅子你感觉绝对非常舒服，他们会把“光墙”上的能量打开，你会心灵感应地感觉到，你会看到…它就像在3D电视中，我此刻就在经历着。那就是为什么，当我经历它时，当我在与学习墙学习之后，我感觉什么事情都不古怪、不奇怪或不平常了。
So, you would just go in there,
and you would wind up falling asleep, because it was perfectly
balanced energy, and you’d just go into a natural stasis. And you
would feel this energy around you, and you would feel like you were
a fly on the wall in any kind of history situation. They would take
me backwards in history, and they would take me a little bit
forward.
所以，你只是去到那里，你会不需要睡眠，因为那是一个完美的平衡的能量，你会进入一种自然停滞状态。你会感觉到这个能量围绕着你，你会感觉好像你在墙上在任何一种历史形势中飞翔着。他们会带着我沿着历史往回走（回顾历史），他们也会带着沿着历史往前走点。
And once they even showed me,
well, what will the world look like after all the changes happen?
And so they, they did this. They showed me what the world would
look like. And there were no buildings, there was no civilization
whatsoever on this planet. It was just incredibly pristine, and you
didn’t see roads, you didn’t see planes, and all that, all that
stuff was nonexistent.
曾经，他们甚至向我展示，哇哦，世界在所有变化都发生之后看上去什么样。他们确实这么做了。他们给我展示世界将会什么样。没有建筑，在这个星球上没有文明，不管是什么文明（译注：应该指的是那种高楼大厦的城市文明）。那只是难以置信的原始，你看到不到公路，你看不到飞机，那样的东西都不存在了。
SC: So, when you were going up
and back, though, like, were you freaked out? Because in my visual
of, you know, reading your books and seeing and talking to you and
hearing you over the last few years, it sounds like it was a scene
out of Star Wars. You know when you walk into that cantina and
there’s all those incredible faces and beings from all around the
world? Sorry, the galaxy, rather, or the universes. Is that what it
was like? And was it scary at that time? Because you were
young.
SC：所以，当你上上下下（飞船）的时候，你崩溃了吗？因为，在我看来，读你的书、看到你、以及和你谈话、还有过去几年听你谈论，它听起来像是一个《星际战争》中的场景。当你走进那个“小酒吧”，那里有各种难以置信的脸，来自世界各地的存有。对不起，来自银河系的存有，或者宇宙的存有。看上去是那样吗？在那个时候那个场景吓人吗？因为你还很小。
SN: It wasn’t. Mostly, I started
out mostly with humans.
SN：不吓人。大部分，我开始的时候大部分是人类。
SC: Um-hmm.
SC：嗯
SN: Actually, what Washta
started doing was he saw I was totally acclimated to the fact that
you felt awfully small because … I was a small kid until I was
about ten, then I started to really grow. But — I’m about five
eleven right now. But I was little, and of course when you see a
dinosaurian, they are eight to nine feet tall. So to me they looked
like these huge monsters. Because they were so big.
SN：实际上，Washta开始做的事情是，他看到我完全接受了感觉（个头）十分小的事实，因为…我一直是个小孩，直到十岁的时候，然后我开始真正成长。但是——我现在大概5英尺11英寸高（180cm）。但是，那时我很小，（看他们）像是在看一个恐龙似的，它们8-9英尺高（2.4-2.7米）。所以，对我来说，他们看起来好像这些大怪物。因为，他们如此之大。
And of course they looked like
the dinosaurs. And my sister at the time was, was a, doing all the
stuff that I guess a lot of kids now that are eight, nine and ten
and eleven do, which is to get totally into dinosaur paleontology.
And so I would see these pictures in these books on Earth, and then
I would see these guys, and they looked just like ’em!
[laugh]
当然，他们看上去像恐龙。我猜现在许多8、9岁以及10、11岁小孩玩那些拼装恐龙古生物学的东西；那个时候，我妹妹也玩那些东西。所以，我在地球上的这些书里看到这些图片，然后当我看到（飞船上的）这些家伙，他们看上去确实像，嗯！[哈哈]
So, even with these energies, my
initial concept, first basic conception of these guys, was that
they were dinosaurs. And what had happened, when I was three years
old, I watched this movie — maybe I was four; anyway, it doesn’t
matter. What matters is that this movie, which was called The Beast
from 20,000 Fathoms, completely scared me. I took … went to my dad,
too, and it completely scared me for three days.
所以，即使带着这些能量，我最初的概念，对（飞船上）这些家伙的最初最基本的印象是，他们是恐龙。所发生的事情是，当我在3岁的时候，我看到这个电影，也许4岁的时候，不过，没关系。重要的是，电影名叫《原子怪兽》（The
Beast from 20000 Fathoms
科幻电影），这个电影完全吓到我了。我带着…去找我爸爸，它完全吓坏我，持续了三天。
And, so when I saw these guys,
when I was six and seven and eight, that was my first basic image.
Okay? So, I got over it quick, but the initial aspect was, “Oh, my
God!” [laugh] And I got over it fast, because these were actually
very wondrous beings. They just looked like the creature in the
movie. [laugh]
所以，当我看见这些家伙的时候，是我6、7、8岁的时候，那是我最初的基本印象。Ok?
SC: It would. It would. So, just
going back a little bit, prior to that, you were actually reading,
back on Earth, by the age of three, even though you hadn’t been to
Earth school, as I’ll call it. But in going up to the ship, were
your parents aware that you were going up there and having lessons
at the, you know, the wall of education, if that’s what you want to
call it?
SC：确实。那么，退回来一点点，在那之前，回到地球上，你实际上到三岁的年纪就能阅读，即使你还没有上地球的学校，我那么称呼它。但是，在上飞船之后，你的父母知道你上到飞船上，并在“教育墙”那上课吗？你是管它叫“教育墙”吗？
SN: Well, the crazy thing that I
did was when I would come back I would tell everybody what happened
to me. I wound up getting treated, when I was six, seven, eight
years old, you know, second, third, fourth grade, people
continually, you know, made fun of me all the time. They thought I
was crazy.
SN：哦，我做过的疯狂的事是，当我回来的时候，我会告诉每一个人在我身上发生的事。我兴奋地受到招待，当我6、7、8岁的时候，二年级、三年级、四年级，你懂的，人们总拿我开玩笑。他们以为我疯了。
And so I didn’t understand. And
I also started telling this stuff to my mother. And of course she
would look at me in awe, but she wouldn’t say anything. I guess it
was just feeding the, “Why, why did I end up with him?” you know,
kind of concept. Because I’m sure she was looking at… being a very
intelligent woman she was probably trying to figure it out, and she
couldn’t.
所以，我不明白。我也开始告诉我妈妈这些东西。当然，她用敬畏的眼神看着我，但是她什么都没说。我猜，就是那种感觉，“为什么，为什么最后生了他这么个孩子（怪物）？”你懂的，就那样的想法。因为，我确定她在看…,
作为一个非常聪明的女性，她也许在尽力弄明白怎么回事，但是，她弄不明白。
All she, all this crazy stuff
happening — the lights going on and off, the abilities I had, like
to open and close light switches, move furniture or small pieces of
statuary or plates, whatever, around, things like that. So, it was
scary to them, and of course, as I said, my dad’s only reaction was
to be violent.
所有发生的这些疯狂的事——灯一直不断开关，我有那样的（超）能力，像是（用意念力）开灯关灯，让家具或者小件雕塑或者盘子或者什么东西到处移动，那样的事情。所以，对他们来说有点疯狂，当然，就像我说的，我爸爸的唯一反应就是暴力。
My mother was trying to figure
it out. At first she tried to control by saying if I didn’t do
certain things my dad would get upset at me, and all this kind of
stuff like that. Then, finally around 12, she changed. And I came
down one day, and to my amazement, she had totally shifted. She put
all these various newspaper articles that she had collected on the
refrigerator with these magnets, and she had put in a whole thing
by Wadsworth and a few other of the transcendentalist philosophers
about a different drummer.
我妈妈尽力弄明白。起初，她试着以那种方式控制着，她说是否我可以不做某些让我爸爸对我感到不安的事情，像那样的各种事情。然后，最后，在12岁左右的时候，她改变了。一天，我下楼来，令我惊愕的是，她完全变了。她把收集的所有这些各种报纸文章用这些磁铁贴在冰箱上，她有一篇Wadsworth写的总结性的文章，以及几个其他超现实主意哲学家的另一套理论。
And so she suddenly said to me,
when I sat down, she said, “Son, I’ve been wanting to ask you this.
What planet are you really from? Where do you come from?”
[laugh]
然后，当我坐下的时候，她突然对我说，她说，“儿子啊，我一直想问你这个事。你到底从哪个星球来？你从哪里来？”[哈哈哈哈哈]
SC: Ah! And what did you say?
[laugh]
SC：啊！那你怎么说？[哈哈哈]
SN: Well, then, I was honest. I
said, “I’m from Sirius, and I’m here to do a mission.” After that,
I explained that I wanted to go to college and all these other
things related to it. I want … my concept at the time was to take
science and expand on it, and create a science that was a galactic
science. And I said, “That’s what I want to do.”
SN：哦，然后，当时我很诚实。我说，“我来自天狼星，我来到这是执行一个任务。”然后，我解释了我想要上大学以及所有其他有关它的事情。我想要…我此刻的印象是，我当时想要从事科学并扩展它，创造一门科学，那是银河科学。然后我说，“那就是我想要做的事情。”
SC: And was… is that what the
galactics had also told you? Because you were chosen to be a
representative and a messenger for them.
SC：那是银河人也让你做的事情吗？因为，你被选中称为他们的一个代表和信使？
SN: They wanted me to do
different things. They wanted me to basically do what I’m doing
right now, which is to write messages, set up an organization whose
basic concept was to prepare for contact and to talk about
consciousness. I, on the other hand, wanted to change science and
move it beyond the whole concept of quantum physics, which was just
starting to gain some degree of, you might say, authority in
science at that time.
SN：他们想让我做另外的事情。他们当时想让我做我现在所做的事情，就是写消息，建立一个组织，这个组织的基本任务是为“接触”做准备，以及讨论意识。在另一方面，我想要改变科学，并推动它超越量子物理的整个概念，量子力学在当时的科学领域刚刚开始获得某种程度上的权威。
I wanted to make it even more
advanced, and I wanted to take that and switch it not just from a
post-quantum physics but into a physics of
consciousness.
我想要使它甚至更先进，我想要从事那个，不仅仅是转变它进入后量子物理学，而是进入意识物理学。
SC: And how old were you,
though, when they told you you were going to be this
messenger?
SC：那个时候你多大，当他们告诉你你会称为这个信使的时候？
SN: I was about six or
seven.
SN：我那是大约6、7岁吧。
SC: Six or seven. And then how
old were you when Susan, your sister, came along?
SC：6、7岁？那么，你妹妹Susan一起来（上飞船的时候），你多大？
SN: I was five.
SN：五岁的时候
SC: Five. And up until five,
though, you’d had to deal with all of this by yourself. Just prior
to Susan coming, Washta told you that you were going to have
someone that you could share all this stuff with.
SC：五岁。5岁之前，你都不得不自己处理所有这些事。在Susan到来之前，Washata告诉你会有某个人，你可以和这个人分享所有这类东西？
SN: Right. And it turned out to
be my sister. My sister believes. And of course she doesn’t like to
say this a lot, because she’s a cardiac nurse. So she tries to be
scientific, you know, medical and all that. And so she really
doesn’t want to admit it in public. She thinks I’m very courageous
for doing this.
SN：对。那最终结果是我的妹妹。我妹妹相信。当然，她不喜欢过多的说这些，因为她是一个心脏病科护士。所以，她尽量显得科学一点，你懂的，医学方面的以及所有那类的。所以，她确实不想公开承认。她认为，我们做这个非常勇敢。
She tends to be very reticent
about talking about this stuff. She doesn’t like to talk about
spaceships and being raised in the ships. When I talk to her about
it, just one on one, she will give me all kinds of
information.
她倾向于对谈论这类事情持谨慎态度。她不喜欢讨论宇宙飞船以及在非常上长大。当我和她说这个的时候，只是一对一的时候，她会给我各种信息。
SC: So, she arrived when you
were five. But you together then started going backwards and
forward to the ships. And she had an almost identical experience to
you.
SC：所以，在你五岁的时候她到来。但是，然后你们一块开始在飞船上来来回回。她几乎和你有相同的经历?
SN: Right, she did. They all
treated us with deference. They all were very kind and very
wonderful with all of us. And of course when she went up on the
ship she didn’t have the asthma. She has bronchial asthma. It was
so severe that she was basically bedridden when she was 12. And
when she went up there it was gone. She was normal.
SN：对，她也有。他们都非常尊重的对待我们。他们都对我们俩非常和蔼非常好。当然，当她上飞船的时候，她哮喘病就没了。她有支气管哮喘，非常严重，以致于她基本卧床不起，那是她12岁的时候。当她上了飞船，哮喘没了，她完全正常。
SC: Okay. So, for many years the
two of you traveled backwards and forwards, and you shared this as
kids, even if you didn’t as adults. And then at 12 you actually
finally said to your mother, “I’m from Sirius,” and she seemed to
accept that. But suddenly, at the age of 14 or 15, you asked the
Galactic Federation to leave and to leave you alone. Why was
that?
SC：Ok。所以，你们俩来来回回（上飞船）持续了很多年，然后，你们还是孩子的时候甚至还没有成年的时候，你们互相分享。然后，12岁的时候，你实际上最终对你妈妈说，“我来自天狼星”，她似乎接受了这个现实。但是，突然，在14岁或15岁的时候，你让银河联邦离开，不再打扰你。那是为什么？
SN: Well, I had this … I told
you, I had this mis-concept that I could somehow create a bridge
between the science I had learned on the ships and the science that
I knew that I was learning about, because I was already reading
college texts when I was 11 or 12.
SN：哦，我有…我告诉你，我当时有一个错误的观念，（那就是）我可以用某种方式在我所在飞船上学到的科学和我所（在普通地球上的学校）学习的科学之间架起一座桥梁，因为在我11或12岁的时候，我已经开始读大学教材了。
SC: Umm. And in fact you
actually read the whole of the Encyclopedia Britannica, which I
think we all had as kids. And you actually were able to read them
just by placing your hand on them, and you would know everything
that was in each volume.
SC：嗯。。事实上，你实际阅读了全套的大英百科全书，那本书是我们小时候都有的。你实际上可以通过把手放在它们上面就能阅读他们，然后你就会知道在每一卷中的每一件事。（译注：《大英百科全书》，全书24册，4400万字，被认为是最权威的百科全书。）
SN: Yeah. As a matter of fact, I
once wrote to them, and I said, “You said a lifetime of reading.”
And, I said, “I’ve already read them.”
SN：是的。事实上，我曾经给他们写信，我说，“你说一生的阅读”，（但是），“我已经读完它们了。”
SC: [laugh] Did you… did you get
a response?
SC：[笑]…你得到回复了吗？
SN: They said, what about the —
you haven’t read. It is a lifetime of reading, because it’s the
yearbooks. They come out every year. And I said, oh, so that’s the
little secret of the commercial! Okay.
SN：他们说，那些你还没有读的呢？它是一生的阅读，因为它是年册。它每年都出版。然后我说，哦，那是商业的小秘密！OK。
SC: Ahh. That’s too funny. So,
all that knowledge had come to you, but you just suddenly said, “I
don’t want you guys around anymore.”
SC：啊。太好笑了。所以，你已经得到了所有（飞船上的）知识，但是你突然说，“我想让你们再在我周围了。”？
SN: Right, because I wanted to
concentrate on the Earth side of this, which was actually naïve and
erroneous in my belief system. But when you’re 14, 15, you think
you can do things that you don’t realize the amount of obstacles
and what you are trying to face are so immense.
SN：对，因为我想要把注意力集中在地球这一边，这些（当时的想法）实际上在我的信仰系统里是纯朴的错误的。但是，当你在14、15岁的时候，你认为你可以能干，你意识不到那么多的障碍，你所尽力面对的是如此的无边无际的。
So I thought that I could do
this. And I didn’t realize, well, look you don’t even have any
degrees yet. If a professor who’s in a major position at the
university that you’re at decides they don’t want you to get this
degree, they can work it so you can’t. I didn’t realize how… the
truth behind how all the Earth systems operate, that the people at
the top of any system in any part of it really get to determine who
walks through those gates.
所以，当时我以为我能够搞定这个事。我没意识到，哦，看，你甚至还没有任何学位呢。如果一所大学里的一个主要的教授，你（的学位）由他决定，他不想让你获得这个学位，他们就能这么做，所以你就不能（得到学位）。我当时没认识到…所有地球系统如何运作的背后真相，任何系统中最顶层的人们在任何不都决定那些他们管辖的人。
So, I didn’t know that yet. I
was going… about to find it out. So, I discovered that, since they
were the gatekeepers, they determined who got the degrees and who
didn’t. And they could change the curves on any test to make it
sure that you didn’t get through the gates, that you flunked out.
And that’s what they basically did.
所以，我还不知道那一点。我去…找出它。所以，我发现，因为他们是“守门人”，他们决定谁获得学位以及谁不能获得。并且他们能够改变在任何测验中的曲线来确保你不能通过那个门，你退学。那就是他们所做的。
I did something very stupid. And
it’s a sign how naïve I was when I was doing my orientation. I told
the vice-chairman of the physics department at the University of
Buffalo that Newton was not the great god that he thought he was,
that he was just a subset of a greater science. And …
我做了一些非常愚蠢的事情。那也是我有多么天真的迹象。当我在情况介绍的时候，我告诉水牛城大学物理系的副主席，牛顿不是他所认为的伟大的神，他只是一个更伟大科学的一个子集。并且…
SC: Which went down really well.
[laugh]
SC:
那传承得非常好。[笑]
SN: It went down really well. He
decided, this man does not graduate from this university! [laugh]
So I was forced during my first year of college to switch degrees
and become… what had come to me to be my secondary degree now
became my primary degree, which I got all my degrees in eventually,
my master’s, my baccalaureate, and my second master’s, which I went
all the way up in my Ph.D. Program to being one paper away, but I
couldn’t get a committee, because I ran into the same problem I had
with this vice-chairman.
SN:
它确实传承得非常好。他决定，这个人不会从这所大学毕业！[笑]
所以，在大学的第一年我就被强迫转换学位变成…成为我第二个学位，现在成为我主学位，最终我得到了我所有的学位，我的硕士学位，我的学士学位，我的第二硕士学位，从这个硕士学位我一路读到博士，只差（发表）一篇文章那么远，但是我不能得到委员会认可，因为我遇到同样的我与这个副主席之间的问题。
SC: That fascination with
science, though, prior to this, that fascination that you had with
science, you, actually, when you were doing junior science, started
working for a major chemical company. Can you tell me a little bit
about that?
SC:
那份对科学的着迷，在这之前，你对科学的着迷，你实际上，当你在读初级科学的时候，开始为一个主要的化学公司工作。能告诉我一点有关于那个的事情吗？
SN: Well, in ’58, ’57, ’59, they
had what they called the Junior Science Program. There were a lot
of chemical companies in the area where I was. Buffalo-Niagara
Falls was loaded with all kinds of chemical companies at that time,
in the late ’fifties, early ’sixties.
SN:
哦，在1958年…57年…59年，他们有他们所谓的初级科学项目。在我所在的领域有许多化学公司。水牛城-尼亚拉加大瀑布在那个时候承载了各种化学公司，在50年代末60年代初。
SC: And this is around the time…
so you’re like 15, 16 by this time.
SC:
这是在…所以，这时候你像是15、16岁。
SN: So what I did was, I got one
of these jobs. Because one of the things that happened to me when I
was in seventh grade was — the start of seventh grade, so I’m
starting junior high school — the chairman for the entire school
system for science goes and has their annual science program at the
beginning of the year, right, and so she calls me up and she says —
and here I’m one guy, I’m one little kid in school, and I’m on the
stage — and she said, “This is your future junior scientist, right
here.”
SN:
所以，我所做的是，我得到这其中一份工作。因为，当我在七年级的时候，发生在我身上的事情之一——七年级开始的时候，那时我开始了初中学习——整个学校的负责科学的主席去了，有他们每年年初的科学项目，对，然后她叫我上台，（在这我是一个人，一个学校里面的小孩，并且我在台上）她说，“这是你们未来的初中科学家，就在这。”
So, when I got into the chemical
company, I was able to get grants because, you know, she signed
letters for me. I got in, I was enjoying it thoroughly. And of
course because of the telepathy I was able to converse with them at
a distance. And they were all talking about they wanted to make a
new set of special polymers. And these of course were people who
had post-docs and all that, and they were doing research, on their
own, in the programs that they had created, their own research
programs, their own grant programs.
所以，当我进入化学公司的时候，我能够获得拨款，因为，你知道吗，她为我签署了一封信。我进入了，我当时彻底的喜欢上了它。当然，因为我能够离着一段距离用心灵感应与他们回话，他们都谈论他们想要制作一套新的特殊聚合物。当然，这些人都是那些博士后都是那样的人，他们正在依靠他们自己做研究；在项目中，他们设计了他们自己的研究（子）项目，他们自己的授予项目。
And I walked behind them, and I
was basically a fancy bottle washer. I found out, that’s all I
really did all day, was wash chemical equipment of some sort or
another — bottles, burners, whatever. So, what happened was, I took
an interest in this, because this fascinated me, what they were
doing. So one of the things that experience had given me with this
wall of light was you’d tap into a person’s brain, you’d look at
his full potential, you can then take that full potential and
expand out on it. So that you completely take whatever they have
and show them a solution. So that’s what I did.
我在他们后面走，我基本上是一个精选的洗瓶机。我发现，那是我整天全部所做的事情，就是洗这样或者那样的化学仪器——瓶子、燃烧炉、不管是什么。所以，所发生的事情是，我对此感兴趣，因为他们所做的使我着迷。所以，在那段经历中这个“光墙”给我的东西之一是，你可以接进一个人的头脑，你会看到他全部潜力，然后你可以拿出那个全部潜力并在其上扩展。所以，你完全拿出他们所拥有的任何东西，并给他们展示一个解决方式。所以，那就是我当时所做的事情。
And so I wound up saying it in
their language, which was their basic scientific jargon, in their
biochem. And so I discovered that they were fascinated with what I
was doing. And they never bothered to turn around. They thought I
was some incredible guest scientist who had decided to walk the
halls with them or whatever.
所以，我激动地以他们的语言说着它，是他们在生物化学领域的基本科学术语。所以，我发现，他们对我当时所做的事情着迷。他们从不费心去转过身来。他们当时认为，我是一个难以置信的客座科学家，喜欢在大厅中走来走去和他们在一块，或者不管什么。
So, ’cause I thought this was
fas … I was bored to death, you know, washing bottles every day,
and test tubes, and things like that. So I decided to use the
teachings that I had been given at that time, and so I used it, and
so I got to them where they had solved and invented a brand new
polymer.
所以，因为我当时认为这是迷人的…你懂的，我无聊死了，每天刷瓶子，测试试管，以及其他那样的事情。所以，我决定使用那段时间（在飞船上的时候）我被给予的知识，所以，我使用了它，所以，我使他们达到了解决并且发明了一个全新的聚合物的地步。
And so finally they turned
around, and they were, they were saying in their minds, which I….
It’s strange they never figured out that they really weren’t
talking. I was just having a three-way telepathy conversation. So
they turned around and they saw this little kid, dressed in this
funny little white smock. And they immediately got all
upset.
所以，最后，他们转过身来，他们，他们在头脑中说，我…那很奇怪，他们从未理解他们实际上没有说话。我当时只是进行一个三方的心灵感应对话。所以，他们转过身来，他们看到这个小孩，穿着这个滑稽的小白工作服。他们立即变得焦虑不安。
And so they ran into the room
and wrote down what they had learned. And then after that they came
out and they walked me to the supervisor of their… of this little
program that I was a part of, and had me fired, and put on a black
list so that I would not get another job.
所以，他们跑进屋里，写下他们所学到的东西。然后，在他们出来之后，他们带我来到这个我所在的这个小项目的管理者那里，让我被炒掉了，并且放进一个黑名单中，这样我就不会得到其他的工作。
And that was, that was my
amateur science program! [laughter]
并且，那是，那是我业余的科学项目！[笑笑]
SC: As you just said, you went
to university, and you originally thought you might study science,
but you didn’t, because you ended up doing political science. So
what attracted you to political science?
SC:
就像你刚刚所说的，你进入大学，你最初认为你可以学习科学（理科），但是你没有，因为你以学习政治科学而告终。那么，是什么吸引你到政治科学的呢？
SN: My mother was heavily
involved in Erie County, which is the county that Buffalo is in,
with Erie County Democrat politics. And so I got heavily involved
in it. That was her passion, beside mathematics and accounting, was
politics. We would talk about it every night. I mean, once she
really got into knowing me and accepting me, we would talk politics
all night.
SN：我妈妈经常涉及伊利县（是一个水牛城所在的县），涉及伊利县民主党政治。所以，我也经常涉及到它。那是她的热情所在，除了数学和会计学，就是政治学了。我们会每天晚上讨论它。我的意思是，当她真正开始了解我接受我，我们会整晚谈论政治学。
She loved politics. She lived
for it. If she hadn’t been so shy… I mean, she was so nervous
around things she couldn’t even drive a car. So, she was… no way
that, with her nervousness, she was ever going to be a candidate
for anything. So she loved politics. She worked behind politics.
She did phone banks and stuff like that. But she was absolutely
involved in it. So I grew up with it, so it was my background. I,
from the age 10 on, it was my other background.
她喜欢政治学。她为它而活着。如果她不是这么害羞的话…我的意思是，她被东西围绕时她会非常紧张，甚至她都不能开车。所以，她…没什么办法，带着她的紧张，她永远不会为任何事情成为一个候选人。所以，她爱政治学。她在政治学幕后工作着。她做了电话银行以及类似的事情。但是，她绝对牵涉其中。所以，我和它一块长大，所以，那是我的（知识）背景。我，从十岁开始，那就是我另一（知识）背景。
And so, when I had nothing else
to do, I said, well, I’ll do political science. I got straight As
from all my social science in high school. So that’s what I
did.
所以，当我没什么其他事情可做的时候，我说，哦，我将从事政治科学。我在高中所有社会科学课程成绩都是A。所以，那就是我当时所做的。
SC: Well, you ended up with an
MA in southeast Asian government, from Ohio Uni in 1970. You also
got an MA in American politics and international public
administration from the Uni of Southern California. And you also
did a Ph.D. And you thought that was where you were headed. But
suddenly, in the 1970s, you ended up as vice president for
scientific programming at a company in California, if I’m
correct.
SC：哦，1970年你最后从俄亥俄州立大学的东南亚政府专业硕士毕业。你也在南加州大学取得美国政治学和国际公共管理专业硕士。你也做了博士。你那时认为那是你前进的方向。但是，突然，在20世纪70年代，你在加利福尼亚的一个公司以科学项目的副主席身份而告终，如果我没说错的话。
SN: Right, a small film company.
Doing this thing on Tesla.
SN：对，一个小的电影公司，最有关特斯拉的电影。
SC: Well, I was going to say,
let’s talk about Tesla, because Tesla is your hero of all … all
time.
SC：哦，我要说，让我们谈谈特斯拉，因为特斯拉一直是你（心目中）的英雄。
SN: I first began reading
library books about Tesla when I was eight. And he fascinated me.
He’s always fascinated me. I feel that Tesla, if he had ever been
allowed to complete what he was capable of doing in a public way,
instead of all these secret documents that we keep talking about….
One of the great conspiracy theories of the world is, what did
Tesla really do, and how much did it affect all the underground
programs?
SN：我最开始在图书管理读到有关特斯拉的书，那时我8岁。他使我着迷。他一直使我着迷。我感觉特斯拉，如果他当时被允许以公开的方式完成他当时所能够做的，而不是我们一直谈论着这些秘密文档…这个世界的最大阴谋论之一是，特斯拉所真正做的事情和它会如何影响所有秘密项目。
And of course we know from
various stories around Tesla that he was involved with zero point
energy; he was involved with anti-gravity; he was involved with
death rays and all kinds of things like that. So, he was the
equivalent of your mad scientist, because of all the things he did,
but he was a very sane scientist, because he understood, and he
didn’t really believe in Einstein and the atomic bomb, et cetera.
He had a funny little quote about that. He said, “Some scientists
learn to think deeply about certain subjects. Others learn to think
clearly. But if those who think deeply would really think clearly,
they would see most of their ideas were insane.”
当然，我们从关于特斯拉的各种故事中了解到，他涉及零点能；他涉及反重力；他涉及“死光”（death
rays），以及所有类似的东西。所以，他相当于你们的疯狂科学家，因为他所做的所有事情，但是他是一个非常理智的科学家，因为他懂得，并且他也不真正相信爱因斯坦和原子弹，等等。他对此有一小段好玩的引述。他说“一些科学家学习如何深入地思考某些主题，另一些则学习如何清楚地思考。但是如果那些深入思考的科学家能够真正清楚地思考，那么他们会看到他们大部分想法是不理智的。”
SC: [laugh] And is that what
attracted him to you, though? I’m sorry, you to him?
SC：[笑]
那是他深深吸引你的地方？
SN: No. I found that quote
later. But what attracted me was the fact that he was really ahead
of himself in just about every aspect of physical science you can
think of. The stuff that people know is, of course, polyphase
current, AC, alternating. He was the one who had Westinghouse
decide for the United States on 60 cycles, and it’s 50 cycles
overseas. He invented that. He invented the meter that works on….
He invented all the switches. All the wires you see overhead are
original designs patented by Tesla.
SN：不。之后我才看到那个引述。但是，吸引我的是这个事实，他在所有你能想到的物理科学的每一个方面都真正非常超前的。当然，人们所了解的是多相电流，AC电流，交流电（译注：特斯拉发明了交流电，爱迪生发明的是直流电；交流电可以远距离传输，成本低；直流电远距离传输成本昂贵。）是他让西屋电器公司决定让美国使用60Hz交流电，而海外都是使用50Hz交流电。他发明了它。他发明了仪表用来…他发明了所有的开关。你看到的所有高架在空中的电线最初是特斯拉的发明专利。
So he invented the generator. He
invented the motor. He invented the transportation system for the
electricity. And he invented the meter that’s used to measure the
electricity in everybody’s house and factory, et
cetera.
所以，他发明了（交流）发电机，发明了电动机。他发明了电力传输系统，发明了用于在每个房子每个工厂测量电力的仪表，等等。
But he went beyond that. He
said, well, this is alternate currency. And as a resonance
frequency, as an RF, it can do other things. So he came on and he
invented radio. He saw that, well, radio has a potential. It can be
used — a current can be used to carry other current, so that you
can then broadcast power. And that’s the big thing that he started
on in the 1890s, his broadcast power station.
但是，他所做的远不止这些。他说，哦，这是交变电流。作为一个共振频率，也就是无线电，它能够做其他事情。所以，他继续（研究）并发明了无线电。他看到，哦，无线电有潜力。它可以被用作…一个电流可以用来携带另一个电流，这样你就能发送电力。这是他在19世纪90年代开始做的一件大事，他的电力广播站。（译注：特斯拉致力于无线电力传输。）
But he didn’t just want to
broadcast power. He wanted to create radio. He wanted to create
television. He wanted to create a ticker-tape that could go around
the world. He wanted to make it possible for the world to be
entirely different. He wanted to create aircraft — and of course
this is the early 1900s when aircraft were flying at like 40 miles
an hour and were crashing a lot because the motors weren’t very
good.
但是，他不仅仅想要发送电力。他想要创造收音机，想要创造电视，想要创造一个可以世界到处移动的纸带电报机，想要使得世界变得完全不同；他想要创造飞机——当然，这是20世纪初期，那是飞机以每小时40英里的速度飞行，经常坠毁，因为发动机不好。
So, he wanted to invent
electrical motors, so he would have things the size of large blimps
that would fly high in the air and would be powered by this
wireless power transfer. And so he was already thinking about
aircraft that flew through the air. He was already thinking about
broadcasting power from one continent to another, around the world,
actually. He was talking about creating a civilization so far in
advance… he also came up with the concept for
computers.
所以，他想要发明电动机，所以他会发明大飞船那么大的东西能够在空气中高高飞翔，并使用这个无线电力输送设备来供电。所以，他已经考虑了有关通过空气飞行的飞机，已经考虑了从一个大洲向另一个大洲（无线）发送电力，实际上，是发送到全世界。他那时谈论的是创造一个到目前都很先进的文明…他也想出了电脑的概念。
SC: Umm. Ummm. And, like, have
the galactics ever told you anything about him, and what happened
to him?
SC：嗯，嗯，银河人有没有告诉过任何关于他的事情，他身上发生了什么事情？
SN: He was a very advanced
being. He just left this world because it was no longer time for
him to work in this limited conscious world, and his body was
starting to fail. He was in his eighties, he had had a very serious
car accident. A car had run him over when he was in his — when he
was about 76, 77. And he had spent a long time in the hospital, and
ever since then he had a bit of a limp, and he ne … his mind didn’t
quite work the way he wanted it to.
SN：他是一个非常高级的存有。他离开这个世界仅仅是因为，对他来说不再是在这个意识有限的世界上工作的时代了，并且他的身体开始不能正常运转了。他在80多岁的时候，他遇到一次非常严重的车祸。当他在大约76、77岁的时候，一辆车从他身上轧过去。他在医院待了很长一段时间，从那以后，他有一点跛行，并且他的思维也不能像他想要的那样工作了。
So, he was deteriorating, and he
understood that. And when a certain time came, he decided it was
just time to leave, and he left.
所以，他在恶化，他理解那一点。当某一个时间来临时，他决定那就是他离开的时间了，然后他离开了。
SC: So, do you think he was
killed? Because there are rumors that he was, because he just came
up with so many things that would have changed the world that the
dark didn’t want him around anymore.
SC：那么，你认为他是被谋杀的吗?
因为有一些流言说他是被谋杀的，因为他相处这么多将会将会改变世界的东西来，以致于黑暗势力不想让他在活着了。
SN: He might have just, well,
been that happened, because his body was failing, he was willing
himself to die, and so death, no matter how it came to him, would
have been welcome. So it just may have happened that
way.
SN：哦，也许是他让那发生的，因为他的身体正在变得不能工作，他希望自己死亡，所以，死亡不管以什么形式降临到他身上，都是受到（他）欢迎的。所以，死亡也许就以那样的方式发生了。
Stephen Cook: But you actually
went on and worked with free energy yourself, and you looked at
concepts for that.
SC：但是，实际上你继续，你自己也致力于自由能源，你着眼于那样的目的？
Sheldan Nidle: I did. I actually
developed various working projects with light bulbs, run motors,
things like that. The thing that is fascinating to me is the way in
which the US Government pleads about needing to find sources of new
energy, and when the sources of new energy are given to it, or at
least put in front of its face, so it can use its various grant
systems to help create it, it looks the other way and tells you
things like, “Well, these grants that we were going to give you, if
you showed us that your thing worked — that was a joke. We didn’t
mean that.”
SN：确实。实际上我开发了各种中作项目有灯泡、运转电动机，像那样的东西。对我来说迷人的事情是，美国政府恳求需要找到新能源的方式，以及当新能源给美国政府的时候，或者至少放在它们面前的时候，那么系能源可以利用各种拨款系统来帮助创造它。从其他角度看，它告诉你类似于这样的事情，“哦，如果你能展示给我们你的东西能够工作，那我们就给你这些拨款。这是一个笑话。我们意思不是这样。”
So, I’ve had that happen to me a
few times. So, I realize now that these energy systems that we have
right now, they’re alternate energy, until these governments are
gone, until this political system that suppresses all of these
various inventions is gone, the whole process of getting this
alternative energy into the world is going to be, if not nearly
impossible, extremely difficult.
所以，这种情况发生在我身上好几次。所以，我现在认识到，我们现在所拥有的这些能源系统，它们是非传统能源，除非这些政府消失了，除非这个压制这些各种发明的政治系统消失了，（否则）让这个非传统能源进入世界，即使不是几乎不可能，那也将会是极其困难的。
SC: Um-hmm. But what’s really
fascinating for me is that you did all of that from 14 through to,
what, early 1980s, with no…. Okay, you had the education that the
galactics had given you as a child; you also had your slight
influence of your Earth-bound energies. You then decided that you
were going to live in a three-dimensional world as a human. And
you, yet, still did all those things in a three-dimensional life,
as a human. But then suddenly, in the early ’80s, your
extraterrestrial contacts, or let’s just say your star brothers and
sisters contacts, resumed.
SC：嗯，但是，对我来说确实非常有吸引力的是，你从14岁就开始做这些事，一直到20世纪80年代，…ok，你拥有儿时银河人给你的教育；你也在地球能源上稍微有点影响。然后，你决定你将作为一个人类在三维度世界。然而，作为一个人类，你仍然做着三维度生活里所有那些事情。但是，然后，突然地，在20世纪80年代早期，你的外星人联络人，或者，这么说吧，你的星星兄弟姐妹联络又继续了。
Why was that? And did you ask
for that to happen again?
为什么那样？你请求让那又一次进行吗？
SN: Not really. [laugh] It kind
of snuck up on me. It was time. You know, like they say with
time-line, there’s divine, right time for everything to happen, let
divine, right time happen. At that time I was married to my second
wife, who was Miriam.
SN：不全是。[笑]
SC:
Um-hmm.
SC：嗯~~
SN:I was still associated with
the organization. And what we did was we drove up to Redding,
because I had read some articles on some guy, and before we met
him. And he was very extraterrestrial in the way he acted. I never
found him and could never find him at all after that. And he
basically reconnected me up with the Sirians. With whatever he did,
he got me, he got this telepathy going, and it started up the whole
process again.
SN：我仍然与那个组织有联系。我们所做的事情就是我们开车去雷丁（加利佛尼亚州的一座城市），因为，在我们见到某个家伙之前，我读了有关这个家伙的一些文章。他的行为方式非常外星人。我从未找到过他，而且在那之后也根本从没找到过他。基本上是他将我重新和天狼星人连接起来。用他所做的那些事情，他找到我，他让这个心灵感应通讯继续，它又开始了整个过程。
SC: So what year was that? Do
you remember how old you were?
SC：那是哪一年？你还记得你那时多大吗？
SN: Roughly about 40. What
happened was, I had been involved with a number of other scientists
about trying to figure out what was going on. There was this… the
return then of Haley’s Comet. Haley’s companion comet, which is
called Comet Wilson. A giant question of astronomy of the year ’85
and ’86 was, which was coming in first, Comet Haley, or Comet
Wilson? And if one was coming in ahead of the other one, which one
was it, and what was the significance of that?
SN：大概40岁。所发生的事情是，我被牵涉进一伙其他科学家中，他们正在尽力弄清楚当时发生着什么。那是…哈雷彗星(Haley’s
Comet)的回归。哈雷彗星的伴星，被称为威尔逊彗星（Comet
Haley）。在1985年、1986年天文学上的一个巨大的问题是，是哪一颗彗星先到来，是哈雷彗星还是威尔逊彗星？如果其中一个比另外一个先到来，那么是哪一个呢？并且，那会有什么重大影响？
And so we had been working on
alternate energy. I had that network from the early ’80s. And we
decided to use our worldwide network with one another and try to
figure out what was going on. And so we discovered eventually, by
late ’86, that Wilson was the first one coming in and that it was
not a normal comet. And it was not acting like a normal comet. It
was doing… it was doing stuff that comets don’t do. Mainly it was
changing direction.
我们一直致力于非传统能源。我从20世纪80年代早期就有了那个交往圈子。我们决定用那个全世界范围的圈子与另一个圈子一块，尽力弄清楚正在发生着什么。到1986年末的时候，我们最终发现，威尔逊彗星是第一个到来的，那不是一个普通的彗星。他的行为不像一个普通彗星。它在做一些…它在做一些彗星们不会做的事。主要是它在改变方向。
And so I happened to be involved
with some people who… one of whom whose father was one of the
people who had developed the interstellar program. They were trying
to answer a question back in the ’sixties, which was, if a ship was
to come in from space, deep space, and had to… wanted to land on
our planet, how would it do it?
那时我恰巧牵涉进一些人中，其中一个人的父亲是开发了星际程序的那些人之一。他们努力回答一个六十年代的问题，那个问题是，如果一艘飞船从空间中来，从深空来，并且不得不…想要降落在我们的星球，它会如何实现（着陆）？
And they spent a couple of
months, and they developed a very primitive computer program. And
we discovered that the way it would be done was they would break…
and this is something you can look up, because this involves the
National Observatory in Canberra …
他们花了几个月的时间，他们开发了一个非常原始的电脑程序。我们发现它实现的方式是他们会进入…这是你可以查到的一些事情，因为这牵涉了堪培拉的国家天文台。
SC: In Canberra, in Australia?
Okay.
SC：在堪培拉，在澳大利亚？ok
SN: Okay. Now, the way it would
break in, it would have to go through the southern hemisphere. So,
what …
SN：ok。现在，他们进入的方式，它将不得不从南半球进来。所以…
SC: Because of what
reason?
SC：由于什么原因？
SN: The program was it would go
just below the planet, break around the sun, and then come back
and… into the northern hemisphere. So, what we… so then, we
suddenly noticed that every major scientist dealing with astronomy
on the planet, or something related to biological science, was
suddenly headed for Australia. So we had a bunch of people in
Australia, and we asked them, “What’s going on?” This is
1986.
SN：那个程序是，它将从下面贴着星球、在太阳周围进来，然后回来…进入北半球。所以，我们所做的…然后，我们突然注意到，这个星球上有关天文学的每个重要的科学家，或者与生物学有关的东西，都突然前往澳大利亚。所以，在澳大利亚我们有一大群人，我们问他们，“正在发生着什么？”那是1986年。
And they said the national
observatory — there’s a visitor’s center there — it’s been closed!
They roped it off! They got military police and regular police
officers suddenly guarding it! And they’ve got all these things
around it, these big huge fences and everything, with Do not
enter’s on it. We said, “That’s awful odd.”
他们说，国家天文台被关闭了（那里有一个访客中心）！他们用绳隔开！他们突然找来军警和普通警察官员保卫它！他们在天文台周围做了各种类似的事情，弄些巨大的栅栏以及一切事情，上面挂着禁止入内。我们说“这情况极其古怪。”
So we finally got a hold of a
couple of scientists in Canada who were going there. First, they
were very upset at us that we found their number. And the second
thing that they were upset about us was that we knew that they were
going to Australia.
最后，我们在加拿大找到几个科学家，他们将要去那里。首先，他们对我们能找到他们的电话号码感到非常不安。其次，他们对我们感到不安的事是，我们知道他们要去加拿大。
And the reason was, of course,
very simple: the scientists wanted to get, immediately get pictures
off of the telescope, which was then, as I said, is the largest
physical telescope, at that time. There’s a whole bunch of
telescopes that are a lot bigger now, but this is, this is 1986.
This is 25 years ago! So, the largest eye telescope, physical
telescope, was at the National Observatory in
Australia.
当然，原因非常简单：科学家想要得到，想要立即从望远镜得到照片，然后，就像我说的，那是当时最大的物理望远镜。现在有许多大得多的望远镜了，但是在1986年，这个是最大的。那是25年前了。最大的目视望远镜、物理望远镜，在澳大利亚的国家天文台。
And all of a sudden, it was
roped off. And you couldn’t get up there. If somebody tried to
sneak over the gates, they’d get arrested, and either thrown into
jail, or else they’d get warned, if they catch you again, you are
going to jail.
然后，突然，它被用绳给隔开了。你不能进去那里。如果有人想悄悄溜进大门，那他们会被逮捕，然后要么扔进监狱，要么他们会受到警告，如果他们再抓到你，你将进监狱。
SC: So, why was that,
though?
SC：那么，为什么要那样？
SN: They didn’t want anybody to
see what they were actually doing.
SN：他们不想让任何人看到他们实际正在做的事情。
SC: Which was?
SC：什么事情？
SN: Which was to observe this
comet, which was not really a comet; it was a giant ship. And it
would be… come close enough to Earth that, with this big telescope,
you could actually see the craft very well, because it was a very
powerful
telescope.
SN：这件事就是观察这个彗星，这不是一个真正的彗星；它是一个巨型的飞船。它将…靠得离地球足够近，用这个大型望远镜就实际能够很好的看到这个飞船，因为那是一个非常强大的望远镜。
So, their job then was to make
sure that only the scientists and those people invited by various
national governments, cooperating of course with the Australian
government, decided to let these scientists up there. And they
wanted to be able to have full rein of the observatory, so, they
closed the visitor’s center and allowed nobody up
there.
然后，他们的工作就是确保只有被各国政府（当然是与澳大利亚政府合作的政府）邀请的科学家和那些人，决定让这些科学家进到里面。他们想要能够充分发挥天文台，所以，他们关闭了访客中心，不允许任何人进入。
So we wondered what was going
on. So we talked to a few of these scientists, and like I said,
they were extremely nasty with us. One of the things that had been
done, which was one of the things that I had been doing, was to
call up the Smithsonian Observatory in Massachusetts. And, so, we
finally got the guy who was the chief PR guy for them at that
time.
那么，我们当时想知道在发生着什么。所以，我们与几个这些科学家交谈，就像我说的那种，他们对我们感到极其不快。我们所做的事情之一（那是我所做的事情之一）就是给在马萨诸塞州(Massachusetts)的史密森尼天文台(Smithsonian
Observatory)打电话。最终，我们找到那时为他们做首席公共关系官的家伙。
Finally, he said, “We want you
to stop calling us. If you won’t desist from this, we’re going to
start getting nasty.” And finally, his final answer was, “You know
what’s happening. I know what’s happening. Let’s just leave it at
that, please, okay?” And then he hung up.
最终，他说，“我们想让你们停止给我们打电话。如果你们不停止这个，我们将开始变得不快。”最终，他最后的回答是，“你知道发生着什么。我知道发生着什么。让我们暂时停止争论，求你了，ok？”然后，他挂断了电话。
SC: So, do you think, though,
that that moment, then, when you were trying to find that out, that
alerted the galactics to the fact that you needed to be back in
contact with them again?
SC：在那个时刻，然后，当你尽力弄明白事情，你认为是那件事使银河人意识到你需要回来跟他们再次取得联系的事实？
SN: I got in contact after that,
and they showed me what was happening. What they were — what the —
what was happening was one of these false flag invasions. They
were, the Anchara group, which had a long series of treaties with
the United States government and a few other major governments, was
basically working together with the Anunnaki and with the dark
cabal, which represents basically all these major governments. And
what they were doing was setting up an invasion. And so, that’s
when President Reagan gives that famous quote of his. The one thing
that will unite the Earth was, is if there was an alien invasion.
Remember that quote?
SN：在那之后，我开始联络，他们展示给我正在发生什么事情。他们是…所发生的事情是那是一次“冒充的”入侵事件之一。他们是Anchara团体，与美国政府以及几个其他主要政府签订了很多系列协议，基本上是与阿努那奇人以及黑暗阴谋集团一块工作，他们代表了所有这些主要政府。他们所做的事情就是编造一个入侵。那是当里根总统发表他著名引述的时候。“能够团结地球的一件事就是，如果有外星人入侵。”记得那句引述吗？
SC: Ooohh. I didn’t even put
these two things together.
SC：噢…..
我没有把这两件事情放在一起。
SN: So now, we realized what’s
going on. So we had no other choice, we had to cut it off. But we
knew what was going on. So that’s when I got in direct telepathic
communications with the Galactic Federation.
SN：那么现在，我们意识到正发生着什么。所以，我们别无其他选择，我们必须打断它。但是我们知道正在发生着什么。所以，就是那时，我直接进行与银河联邦的心灵感应通讯。
SC: And that’s when it resumed
and has stayed with you ever since.
SC：那是银河联邦重新继续联络的时候，自从开始就和你在一块。
SN: One of the things they told
us was there were two ships involved with made-up Comet Wilson. The
first one was just a command ship. That was allowed to come into
this planet, the star system, and go around the solar system and
break against the moo … the sun, and all that. The second one was
not allowed to pass Jupiter. And that was the one that had the
soldiers on it, the invaders. And that one went back out into
space.
SN：他们告诉我的事情之一就是，有两艘飞船牵涉进组成威尔逊彗星。第一个仅仅是一个指挥舰。这艘飞船允许进入这颗星球、这个太阳系，并绕着太阳系转，进入月球…太阳，诸如此类。第二个不被允许超过木星。那艘舰是那个装着士兵的飞船，是入侵者。并且，那个飞船已经回到了太空中。
That’s when they did the first
of the five attempts to invade this planet. The first one was in
’86. The second one was in ’89. And after that, there were three
more in the ’nineties. And I had a friend who knew Gordon Cooper,
the astronaut. And he was sending out notices all the time to
people on his list, which were mostly scientists and people related
to them. And I just happened to know one of them. And he kept
telling me, he’d call me up and he’d say, “They’re trying again.”
And I knew then that the Federation would stop it. And sure enough,
they did.
那是他们所做的五次企图入侵这颗星球的第一次。第一次在1986年，第二次在1989年。在那之后，还有三次在20世纪90年代。我有一个朋友，他认识哥敦库柏（Gordon
Cooper），是一个宇航员。他给他的列表上的人们一直发送通知，列表上的人都是与他们最直接有关的科学家和人们。我恰巧认识其中之一。他不断告诉我，他给我打电话了，他说“他们又在尝试。我当时知道银河联邦会阻止它。毫无疑问，银河联邦阻止了他们。”
But, so, this has been going on
for a long time. But that’s how I got started again in what I’m
doing right now.
但是，这一直进行了很长时间。但是，那时我怎么又开始做起我现在所做的事情。
SC: So then, what led you in
1992 to suddenly write that first book?
SC：然后，是什么让你在1992年的时候突然写了这第一本书？
SN: Well, I’d been getting more
and more information, more and more information. And I didn’t know
what to do with it. So this is how they worked it. I finally got
convinced to go up into Seattle and visit my sister, and Miriam had
discovered there was this lady who did regression therapy. And so I
went and spent about two weeks with her doing regression
therapy.
SN：哦，我一直得到越来越多的信息，越来越多的信息。我当时不知道怎么处理它。所以，这是他们致力于它的方式。最终，我被说服去西雅图（Seattle，美国城市）去拜访我妹妹，米里亚姆（译注：前文已经提到，是sheldan的第二任妻子）发现有一个做（前世）回溯治疗的女士。所以，我去了，跟她花了两个星期做（前世）回溯治疗。
And she came up with all the
things I was being related with then, because I was starting to
remember even before the regression therapy what went on when I was
much younger. And so she got all the information from hours and
hours of listening to me when I was in the hypnotic state. And so
then I was asked to give a talk to her group. And that was my first
lecture.
她使我想起所有我与他们有关的事情，因为我甚至在做（前世）回溯治疗之前我就开始回忆起在我非常小的时候发生了什么。然后，她花很多很多个钟头聆听我在催眠状态中说的话得到了所有的信息。然后，我被请求给她的团体一个研究。那是我第一次演讲。
SC: Wow. [laugh] So, writing
that first book, was that very hard, or it actually flowed quite
quickly and easily?
SC：哇哦。[笑]
那么，写这第一本书，是非常困难的吧，或者它实际上它进行的非常快速并且容易？
SN: It was pretty easy. But the
major thing was I needed an editor. And my writing style was not
very advanced then. My writing in the last 20 years has gone way
up.
SN：那非常容易。但是，主要的事是我需要一个编辑。那时，我的写作风格不是很高级。我的写作在过去20年间已经进步了许多。
SC: You got the book out, and
suddenly you had people really, really interested in what you were
saying and talking about.
SC：你出版了书，突然，有很多人对你所说的所谈论的非常非常感兴趣。
SN: Right.
SN：对
SC: And then, in 1997, in
November, you founded the Planetary Activation Organization, or
PAO, which you still run today.
SC：然后，在1997年11月，你创建了“行星激活组织”（Planetary
Activation Organization，缩写PAO）, 你今天仍在运行着这个组织。
SN:
Exactly.
SN：确实。
SC: The aim of that was
literally what? To bring everybody together that believed or had
read your book or resonated with it?
SC：这个组织的目的是什么？让大家聚到一起相信或者阅读你的书或者与它共鸣？
SN: What I wanted to do was,
first of all, Planetary Activation Organization’s primary purpose
was to prepare the planet for First Contact.
SC：我想要做的，首先，“行星激活组织”（Planetary Activation
Organization）的主要目的是让星球准备好第一次接触。
SC:
Um-hmm?
SC：嗯
SN: The second purpose was to
understand the fact that there was a consciousness shift going on
on our planet, and that we were moving from being limited conscious
beings to being fully conscious beings. And we needed to know the
basic history of why we got here and why we’re going back to where
we are as our natural state, which is to be fully conscious
beings.
SN：地二个目的是（让人们）理解，有一个意识转变的事实在我们的星球上进行着，那是我们从受限意识的存有转变到全意识存有。我们需要知道我们为什么来这的基本历史，以及为什么我们要回到我们自然状态，自然状态是完全意识的存有。
And then the third part was to
understand that our planet is not just a giant rock, it’s really a
living being and a living essence, and that we were originally
brought here to be those beings whose task was to be a guardian for
this planet and for its incredible, diverse biology.
然后，第三部分是理解我们的星球不仅仅是一块巨大的岩石，它确实是一个活着的存有，一个活着的实质，以及我们最初被带到这来成为这些（人类）存有，任务是这个星球的守护者，以及它难以置信的各种生物群落的守护者。
And so, I wanted people to
understand all of that. And one of the things they told me to do
with it was to create planetary activation groups, which led to the
book called Selamat Ja!, which is called a handbook for galactic
humans.
所以，我想要人们理解这一切。他们告诉我做的与此有关的事情之一是创建“行星激活小组”（PAG），这导致了这本叫《处于喜悦中》（《Selamat
Ja》）的书，被称为银河人的手册。
And so, what I was doing with
that was to give a basic overview to people who are interested in
how to go about creating planetary activation groups. My primary
concern was to have people understand about First
Contact.
所以，在那本书中我所做的是，给那些对如何着手创造“行星激活小组”的人们一个基本的概况。我主要关心的事是让人们理解有关第一次接触。
And then the third book, Your
Galactic Neighbors, was written to help people understand that the
people out in space, most of them are non-human, but they are very
incredibly beautiful beings, and we wanted to get over the fear.
Because I remember the fear, like I was explaining, when I was a
kid, when I saw my first dinosaurian, probably created by the fact
that I saw that crazy movie, but anyway, it was there.
然后，第三本书，《你的银河邻居》被写下帮助人们理解在外面空间里的人们，他们大部分是非人类，但是他们是非常难以置信美丽的存有，我们想让客服恐惧。因为，我记得恐惧，就像我解释的那样，当我还是一个小孩的饿时候，当我最初看到恐龙，也许是由我看了那部电影造成的，但是不管怎样，恐惧那时在那里。
And so I wanted people to get
over the fear that people have. That’s why Star Wars is so
frivolously effective, is because it’s almost like a cowboy, it’s
like a — I call it a space western.
所以，我想让人们客服人们所拥有的恐惧。那是为什么为什么《星际战争》是如此愚昧的给人深刻印象，是因为他几乎像一个牛仔，他像一个——我称之为“空间里的西部”。
SC:
Hmm.
SC：嗯
SN: There are good hats and
black hats, and all that. But that’s all changed. I wanted people
to get over those ancient fears and to understand completely who
and what they are, and who and what we were, and what we are about
to become again. And so, my task as messenger was to explain that
to people, and also to give an update to people on what’s
happening.
SN：有好人，有坏人，都有。但那都改变了。我想让人们客服那些古老的恐惧并完全理解他们是谁他们是什么，我们是谁我们又是什么，以及我们将要再次成为的。我作为信使的任务是将那解释给人们，也给人们更新有关正在进行的事情。
And that’s what we are doing
right now. Our website, PAOweb, is doing all these various things
and providing information on it. It’s got a lot of information on
it. And I’m increasing that with the updates, and now I’ve been
adding, the last year and a half plus, I’ve been adding webinars to
it.
那就是我们现在正在做的事情。我们的网站，PAO网站（行星激活组织网站）正做着所有这些事情，并在网站上提供信息。网站上有许多信息。我不断增加更新，现在我增加了….去过一年半多，我给它增加了管理员。
SC: Well, we’re going to get to
one of them in a minute. But I was just thinking, no one could call
you Mr. Idle Nidle, at any time, could they? Because you have just
been phenomenally busy!
SC：哦，马上我们可以谈谈其中一个。但是，我只是在想，没有人能够管你叫无所事事的Nidle先生，对吗？因为你一直只是表面上的忙碌！
SN: Yeah. I’ve been … I’ve been
asked to do all the things that are necessary to make all this
happen. And as far as the final aspect of it, which is the actual
shift, I would have loved it to happen yesterday, if you want to
know the truth.
SN：对。我一直…我一直被请求做能够使得这一切发生的所有必要的事情。至于它最后的一个方面，就是实际的转变；如果你想要知道事实的话，我会希望它本应该昨天就发生了。
SC: Despite all of that, and,
look, it seems to be part of the course when someone is a
lightworker or a starseed, that sometimes there’s a bit of
controversy. You’ve actually been ripped off. You’ve had people do
things in your name, such as try to sell seats on a space flight
that you had nothing to do with. You’ve also had all sorts of
things done behind the scenes. I mean, how do you feel when
something bad like that happens to you when you’re trying to do
something very good?
SC：尽管这样，看，似乎当某个人成为一个光之工作者或者星际种子的时候似乎就成为了这个过程的一部分，有时有一点争论。你实际上已经被偷窃了。有人冒充你的名字做事情，就像试着卖空间飞行的座位票，而你与这一点关系都没有。你在幕后做着各种各样的事情。我意思是，当像那样的坏事发生在你身上的时候，当你已经尽全力做一些非常好的事情的时候，你有什么感觉？
SN: Well, it comes with the
territory. And the thing that I’ve learned, the best thing I’ve
learned is to just ignore it as much as you can. Being caught up in
the controversy does not solve anything. It starts people into a
series of you said, she said kind of things, and we don’t really
need that. What we need as lightworkers is to be together and not
try to create situations with one another where we get into these
ridiculous conflicts.
SN：哦，这涉及到一些主权的问题。我所学到的事情是，我所学到的最好的事情是，仅仅尽可能的忽略它就好。卷入这些争论不会解决任何问题。他将人们引入一系列你所说的事情、她说的类似事情中，我们不需要那个。我们做为光之工作者所需要的就是聚在一起，尽量不要制造与其他人的情况，在那里我们卷入这些荒谬的冲突。
So I do my best to try to smooth
them over and to ignore the worst of it, because it’s really, as
they would say in the game, it’s really solving
nothing.
所以，我尽全力缓和他们，忽略最差的，因为，就像他们说在游戏中说的，它真的不能解决任何问题。
SC: Yeah… [laugh] But what about
Middle Earth and the healing light chambers? I mean, some people
agree with one and not the other, and some people say, look, we’re
not going to need healing chambers at all because Ascension is the
healing process. And then there’s others who believe there is no
Middle Earth.
SC：是的….[笑]。但是，中空地球和光之疗愈室是怎么回事？我的意思是，一些人赞同这个；一些人说，看，我们将根本不需要疗愈室，因为扬升是疗愈的过程。然后，又有一些人认为没有中空地球。
So, I mean, I always think in my
head, well, they used to believe the Earth was flat, and we know
that’s not the case. But what do you say to them, and
…?
我的意思是，我总是在头脑中想，他们过去常常相信地球是平的，我们情况不是那样。但是，你会对他们说什么？
SN: Well, Inner Earth is real.
If you look at the NASA photographs from Apollo 14, Apollo 11, a
couple of other Apollo flights, you begin to see from the very
flights that science has given us, through the photographs coming
back from the Moon that the Earth is hollow.
SN：哦，内部地球是真实的。如果你看看NASA的照片，阿波罗14、阿波罗11以及几个其他阿波罗飞行拍摄的照片，你开始从这些科学给我们的飞行开始看到，通过从月球发回的照片看到，地球是空心的。
They’ve also taken pictures of
Mars and of Jupiter, and they have all kinds of strange things
happening around the poles of Saturn which show conclusively that
planets tend to be hollow. So that means it’s real.
他们也拍摄了火星和木星的照片，他们在土星两极周围发生各种奇怪的事情，也决定性的显示了那个星球趋向于是空的。所以，那意味着这是真的。
Although I, when I was a kid, I
was taken, as one of the many trips that I had, into Inner Earth. I
got to see the crystal cities, I got to talk to the Agarthans. And
they’re just like the Sirians and the Pleiadians and the
Andromedans, and et cetera, and the Galactic Federation. They are
very advanced, magnificent benign beings. And so, and the world
they live in is a five-dimensional world, just like the
five-dimensional world you see on the ships.
当我还是小孩的时候，作为我许多旅程之一，我被带到内部地球过。我看到了水晶城市，我和阿加森人交谈过。他们就像天狼星人、昴宿星人和仙女座人一样，等等，以及银河联邦。他们是非常先进、壮丽的、仁慈的存有。他们居住的世界是在一个五维度的世界，就像你在飞船上看到的五维度世界一样。
SC: Um-hmm. Which is where we’ll
end up hopefully soon. [laugh] And what about the healing chambers,
the chambers of light?
SC：嗯。那也是我们很快会最终达到的。[笑]
疗愈室是什么样的呢，光之疗愈室？
SN: The chambers of light are
about bringing back the codes…. Right now, all of us have the
various things in our RNA, DNA that is starting to go through what
is called by the geneticists, it’s becoming encoded, which means
it’s waking up, it’s becoming alive. As a matter of fact, in ’95,
they saw this as a major thing. They had a secret conference in
Mexico and decided to tell all the geneticists, “Don’t talk about
this. This could be the next great monster after AIDS.” And so they
didn’t want to get involved with it unless it showed up
more.
SN：光之疗愈室是用来恢复编码…现在，我们所有人在我们的DNA\RNA中有各种东西，DNA和RNA正开始经历遗传学家所谓的“编码”，它正开始编码，这意味着它正醒来，它变成有活力的了。作为一个事实，在1995年，他们看到这个重大的事情。他们在墨西哥召开了一个秘密会议，决定告诉所有遗传学家，“不要谈论此事。这可能是艾滋病毒之后的下一个大怪兽。”所以，他们不想牵涉其中，直到它显现得更多。
We have crystal children on our
planet right now that are very telepathic, who have learned and
understand how to use nature and matter just as fully conscious
beings can, who are growing up in a world and understand that their
purpose is to help move us from where we are right now, in limited
consciousness, into full consciousness. All this is now
happening.
我们此刻在我们的星球上有水晶儿童，他们有很强的心灵感应能力，他们已经学习并懂得了就像全意识存有那样使用自然和物质，他们在一个世界上成长，并懂得他们的任务是帮助我们从我们现在的受限的意识状态转变到全意识状态。这一切现在都在发生。
Now, let’s look at the light
chambers. They know, because of the sequencing, we have a thing
that was discovered about 15 years ago which is called epigenetics.
Epigenetics simply is that when a certain crisis happens in your
life your gene sequencing shifts, and it shifts permanently, unless
another major crisis happens.
那么，让我们看看光之疗愈室。他们知道，因为（基因）序列，15年之前我们发现了一件事，被称为表观遗传学，（epigenetics）。表观遗传学简单来说就是，当某一个“危机”发生在你的生活中时，你的基因序列发生改变，并且是永久改变，直到另一重大危机发生时。
So, all of us had the same thing
happen to us when we were switched from being full, unlimited
conscious beings. We have gene sequencing surrounded by epigenetic
programs which prevent us from becoming fully conscious beings. One
of the giant tasks that any of the great ascended masters had, and
why it took generations for them to do it, is because it required
that you have a special moment when you shift the sequencing back
into the proper sequencing for being a fully conscious being. So
it’s not easy. It takes a lot of work, a lot of stress, a lot of
concentration.
所以，当我们转变成完整、无限意识的存有时，我们所有人也会发生同样的事情。我们的基因序列被表观遗传学的程序所围绕，阻止我们成为全意识存有。任何伟大的扬升大师所做的一件巨大的任务之一（并且也是对于扬升大师来说它为什么需要几代的努力来实现它）是因为它需要一个特殊的时刻，在那个时刻基因序列转变回适合成为一个全意识存有的序列。所以，它不容易。它需要很多工作、许多压力、许多注意力。
All of these beings went through
almost a whole lifetimes where they basically just spent the whole
day going through immense prayers and just standing or sitting in
certain positions to allow them to be in a degree of meditation
that they could talk to heaven, talk to their body, and gradually,
genetic sequence by genetic sequence, by genetic sequence — and
we’re talking billions of them — move their bodies from where we
are as mortals into an immortal, fully conscious being. That
…
所有这些存有几乎经历整个一生（或者几世），在那一生里，他们基本上就是花整天整天的时间去做无数的祈祷，就只站着或者坐在某些地方来使他们处在某种程度的冥想状态，在冥想状态中他们可以与天堂对话，与他们的身体对话，然后逐渐地，一个基因序列接着一个基因序列接着一个基因序列的改变（我们说的是几十亿基因序列），将他们的身体从我们现在的终有一死的状态转变到不朽的状态的全意识存有。那…
SC: And that’s what the light
chambers would do?
SC：那是光之疗愈室会做的事情吗？
SN: And so what the light
chambers do is they take this stuff that is so difficult for us to
change, and it allows us to lay there, surrounded by our own
guardian angels, surrounded by our angelics, surrounded by our
mentors, surrounded by all those beings in heaven who are there to
help us, to allow us to be in complete security, in complete
oneness with all life and all light, and use that time, of a few
days, three days exactly, to shift from the limited conscious being
we are now into a fully conscious being, and to allow us to go
through all those processes. Because once we become fully
conscious, all our thoughts become manifest.
SN：光之疗愈室所做的是，他们将那些对我们来说很难转变的东西拿走，它让我们躺在那，我们自己的守护天使围绕着我们，我们的天使、我们的导师、我们在天堂上帮助我们的所有那些存有围绕着我们，使我们处在完全安全中，与所有的生命所有的光完全的合一中，并使用那个时间，几天的时间，确切的说是三天，从一个我们现在的受限意识的存有转变成一个全意识存有，并使我们通过所有那些过程。因为一旦我们称为完全意识，那么我们的想法变成具有显化能力的。
So, we have to learn how to control that.
So, when we come out, we’ll go through a seven to
ten-day training to help us understand the etiquette of full
consciousness. And from then on we are a fully conscious being, we
are part of a natural civilization that will then evolve on this
world, which is a galactic civilization, a galactic…
所以，我们要学习如何控制它。所以，当我们出来的时候，我们将通过7-10天的训练来帮助我们理解全意识存有的规矩。并且从那以后，我们就是一个全意识存有了，我们是自然文明的一部分，这一自然文明之后会在这个世界上进化，是一个银河文明，一个银河（社会）…
SC: Yeah! [laugh] That’s what we
all want! Now, just briefly… I was just going to say, you know,
sometimes the messages seem the same. So do you sometimes get bored
with them, or think, oh, this is the same old, same
old?
SC：耶！ [笑]
那是我们都想要的！现在，概要地….我想要说，你懂的，有时消息似乎是同样的。所以，你对他们感到无聊了嘛，或者认为，哦，这是同样的旧内容？
SN: Well, we’re
educating people.
SN：哦，我们正在教育人们。
SC:
Yes.
SC：对
SN: Sometimes it requires a few
weeks, a few months of going over it again and again, because
people tend to take anything that’s repetitive, even if it’s stuff
that they have to learn…. We all know that from school, when we
have to learn things. We, after a while, didn’t feel very good
about it because we had to go over it again and again. Of course I
had a giant assist, which was I had a complete memory system that
remembered everything.
SN：有时，它需要几周，几个月，不断不断的重复它，因为人们趋向于接纳任何重复的事情，即使是那些他们不得不学习的东西…
我们都从学校知道了那一点，当我们不得不学习东西的时候。在一段时间之后，我们对此感觉不是很好，因为我们不得不一遍一遍的重复它。当然，我有巨大的协助，这个协助是我有一个完全的记忆系统能够记住每件事。
So when I looked at a book, I
could just flip the pages and remember it. And I would… to the
point where the history teachers when I was in high school, would
ask me, “Did I teach that subject right?” And I would tell them
yes, or if they didn’t do it right I would tell them,
well…
所以，当我看一本书的时候，我仅仅轻轻翻一下然后记住它。并且，我可以…
都到了那个程度，当我在上高中的时候，历史老师会问我，“那个主题我教得对吗？”我会告诉他对，或者，如果他们教得不对，我会告诉他们，哦…
SC:
[laugh]
SC:
[笑]
SN: … so, said the
following. And I would…. So.
SN：…所以，我就发言。然后我会….这样。
SC: But you don’t ever get
bored?
SC：但是，有没有感到无聊？
SN: No. I love facts. I’ve
always been related into facts. I love… I love history, I love all
things dealing with facts of any sort. I’ve been that way since I
was a small kid, probably because of the way I was brought up. I
have felt, to understand anything, whether it’s government,
politics, history, whatever, so.
SN：不。我喜欢事实。我总是与事实有关。我爱…我爱历史，我爱所有与事实有关的事情。自从我是一个小孩的时候，我就是那样的，也是因为是我被养育长大方式有关。我感觉，为了理解任何事情，不管是政府、政治学、历史还是不管什么东西，都是这样。
SC: Well, speaking a little bit
more about history, you’ve been married twice, and you’re in, now,
a third and wonderful relationship. You were married in your second
marriage to a lovely lady called Miriam, who you’ve mentioned
already. And she remains one of your very close team. And in fact
she creates the beautiful illustrations that go with a lot of your
work. So that must be a lovely feeling, to still have her around in
your life.
SC：再说一点有关历史的内容，你有过两端婚姻，现在你在第三段非常好的亲密关系中。你在第二段婚姻中和米里亚姆结婚，前面你已经提到了。她现在仍在是你非常紧密的团队中的一员。实际上，她为你许多工作创建了美丽的插图说明。所以，她仍然在你生活的周围，那一定是一个非常充满爱的感觉。
SN: Yes, I am. And I’m … I’m
doing all I can to help her get through cancer. She’s toward the
end of it. It’s been a long journey.
SN：是的。我…我做我所能做的一切来帮助她治疗癌症。她正已经接近它的末期（译注：应该是快治疗痊愈了）。那是很长一段路。
SC: Okay. So at the moment
you’re helping Miriam with cancer, but you and she were still
working together even after you divorced, and she was very good
friends with a lady called Colleen Marshall, who is your partner
now. And the three of you work together very closely. So how does
that all work?
SC：ok。那么，此刻，你正帮助米利亚姆治疗癌症，但是，即使在离婚之后你和她仍然一起工作，她与一个叫科林.马歇尔（Colleen
Marshall）的女士是好朋友，科林现在是你的伙伴。你们三个人一起密切的工作着。那么，这一切是如何工作的?
SN: Well, we have our ups and
downs, but — as does anybody — but we get along. We… we work. Right
now she hasn’t been able to do anything for a while because of the
cancer, but…
SN：我们有我们的波折，但是——就像任何人一样——但是，我们和睦相处。我们…我们工作。现在，她有一段时间不能做任何事情，由于癌症，但是…
SC: Mmmm. But Colleen’s been an
enormous help with your business now and also your life, and in
fact she’s grounded you on many levels.
SC：嗯。但是，科林对你现在的事业和你的生活是一个巨大的帮助，实际上她在许多方面为你打下基础。
SN: She has. She’s a magnificent
lady.
SN：确实。她是一个非常美好的女士。
SC: One of the big surprises I
got about the two of you was about two weeks ago when I was talking
to John Smallman. And he mentioned that he and his wife Eugenie and
you and Colleen all ended up sharing a place in Maui in Hawaii at
one stage. So, how was that? Because you’ve all remained friends
since then.
SC：让我大吃一惊的是，大约两周之前当我与约翰.斯摩曼（John
Smallman，译注：一个著名通灵人，传导耶稣和索尔的信息）交谈的时候了解到你们两个。他提到他和他的妻子尤金妮亚以及你和科林曾在一个阶段在夏威夷的毛伊岛分享过一个地方（译注：合租一处房子）。那么，那是怎么回事？因为，你们从那时起就都是朋友。
SN: Well, once again, we had our
ups and our downs. John went through periods where he said, “I
don’t want to do this anymore,” to where he changed his mind.
Eugenie had always been, felt like she was another unofficial
member, and she of course is the person who edits all the
updates.
SN：哦，再次，我们有我们的波折。约翰经历了一些阶段，他说“我不想再做这个了”，然后到他改变主意。尤金妮亚一直感觉像她是另一个非正式的成员，她当然是那个编辑所有更新的人。
SC: That moment in that house
must have been quite, I don’t know, just bizarre in some ways,
because John was still channeling Saul, and you were talking with
the Galactic Federation. So, as I said to him, you kind of had the
whole world covered, or the Galaxy covered.
SC：在那个房子的那个时刻一定是某种方式来说是非常奇异的，我说不好，因为约翰仍然在传导索尔的信息，而你与银河联邦交谈。所以，就像我对她说的那样，你某种程度上涵盖了整个世界、或者涵盖了银河系。
SN: Yeah. Well, he was still,
when we first came together, he was still finishing… he was
finishing up his career as a very excellent airline
pilot.
SN：是的，当我们最初聚到一起的时候，他仍在完成…他刚刚结束他作为一个非常优秀的航空公司飞行员的职业。
SC: All right. So, moving
forward, how do you see what lies ahead for us? How do you see
Ascension unfolding? And how do your current messages relate to
Ascension as it lies ahead?
SC：好吧。那，往前说，你如何看待对我们来说有什么即将来临？你如何看待扬升的展开？你当前的消息如何与即将来临的扬升相关的？
SN: Well, Ascension is meant to
happen not that far away. We’re close to that period. What the
Galactic Federation is doing right now is finishing up the process
of changing our reality.
SN：哦，扬升不会在那么遥远发生。我们非常接近那段时期。现在银河联邦正在做的事情就是完成改变我们现实的过程。
SC: So, do you not believe that
Ascension is on December 21? Or what is the significance of
December 21?
SC：那么，你相信扬升是在12.21发生吗？或者，12.21的重要性在哪里？
SN: Well, December 21 to 24,
because everybody will throw a different one of those dates at you.
What it is is there are timelines in our reality that are coming
together. What happens on that time, the 21st or the 24th of
December, whatever day is the magic one, is that all the timelines
will then merge. A great vortex will then come forth, and we will
then be entering a new reality. And that means by that time, we
should have had the beginnings of the shift happening to
us.
SN：12.21-12.24，因为不同的人会抛给你一个不同的那些日期。那是在我们的现实里有时间线将要聚合到一起的日期。在那段时间所发生的事情，12.21或者12.24，不管哪一天都是一个魔法般的一天，是所有的时间线然后会融合。一个巨大（能量）漩涡然后会出现，然后我们会进入一个新的现实。那意味着，到那个日期，我们应该会见到转变开始发生在我们身上了。
We should have Disclosure. I
think that Disclosure will happen before the end of this year. The
Federation has to come on board right now, sometime in the next few
months, and it has to bring forth two other things. It has to allow
people to formally get access to new technologies, and it has to be
the supervisor for creating these new governances on our
planet.
我们应该进行了大揭露。我认为大揭露会发生在年底之前。现在银河联邦已经加入进来，在接下来几个月的某个时间，它将推动其他两件事情。它不得不让人们正式接触到新科技，它应该成为在我们的星球创建这些新政府的监督者。
We have to move from this crazy
society based on debt and power to something entirely different.
Because we are changing as a people. We are changing as our own
soul is changing. We are no longer ready to continue to accept a
limited conscious existence.
我们应该从这个疯狂的基于债务和权力的世界转变成一些完全不同的东西。因为，我们作为一个种族正改变着。我们改变着，因为我们自己的灵魂正在变化。我们不再准备继续接受一个受限意识的存在。
We all realize that something
wonderful, something amazing is about to happen, and that is indeed
what is about to happen. We are creating, within our own bodies
right now, we are changing our chakras, we are changing the energy
system in our body, we are reconnecting massive layers of light
bodies together. We are basically bringing up new chakras as
well.
我们都意识到一些奇妙的事情、一些令人吃惊的事情即将发生，那是确实将要发生的事情。我们正在创造，现在在我们自己的身体中，我们正改变我们的脉轮，我们正改变我们身体中的能量系统，我们将多层光体连接到一起。我们也将有新的脉轮。
So, we are moving from being a
limited conscious being to a fully conscious being. We are reaching
a certain stage at which we then need a giant assist. And that’s
what the light chambers are. That’s all they are. They’re just a
giant assist.
所以，我们从一个受限的意识存有转变称为一个全意识存有。我们达到了某一个阶段，在这个阶段我们需要巨大的帮助。这是光之疗愈室的作用。那是他们所是的。他们就是一个巨大的帮助。
SC: So, with December 21, or
around that period of those timelines, you just said that a whole
lot of timelines come together. And in fact some of the people that
have done things like through the looking-glass and Project
Bluebeam and those sorts of things within the military, they’ve all
come back and said that every single possible timeline literally
comes together around about December 21.
SC：所以，就12.21或者那些时间线的那个阶段，你只说整个众多时间线将会收敛。实际上，一些人已经通过像“窥镜”（looking-glass）、蓝光工程（Project
Bluebeam）和那类军方的东西做了一些事情，他们都回来说，每一个可能的时间线在12.21附近收敛到一起。
So, do you know what lies ahead
for us after that moment?
你知道在那一刻之后会发生什么吗？
SN: After that moment, we have
slipped into the new reality. The only thing that then will be
allowed to happen is all the things I’ve been talking about, which
is new governance, prosperity, abundance, and full consciousness.
So, when anybody who goes through that or has visitations on ships
with various people on the ships, they immediately come back and
say one thing: Something wonderful is indeed about to happen. Don’t
worry about it. We are entering a world in which all our dreams
come true.
SN：在那一刻之后，我们已经滑入新现实。然后，允许发生的唯一一件事就是我所谈论的所有事情，就是新政府、繁荣、富足和全意识。所以，当任何人经历了那个或者在飞船上和飞船上各种各样的人看到，他们立即回来都说同一件事：一些极好的事情确实就要发生了。不要担心它。我们正进入一个我们的梦想都实现的世界。
And that’s basically what is now
on line. It’s on tap. So with December 21 through 24, whatever that
magical date is, it’s the time when the gate closes on any other
possibility. It’s the time when all of us then become locked into
becoming fully conscious beings. And then the rest is following
this path. It’s almost like in a movie where you go through a door
and you suddenly see this amazing light, and you start heading
toward the door, and when you open it up you say,
“Wow!”
And that’s basically where we’re
going. We’re approaching the “wow” moment when we
shift.
那基本上就是现在在线的事情。那是随时可使用的。那么，对于从12.21到12.24，不管那个魔法般的日子是那一天，那是门关闭所有其他可能性的时间。那是一个我们所有人然后编程完全意识的存有的时间。然后，剩下的就是沿着这条路走下去。他就像在一个电影中的情节，你通过一道门，你突然看到这令人惊奇的光，然后你开始朝着门走去，当你打开它，你说“哇哦！”那就是我们要去的嗲发那个。当我们转变时我们就在接近那“哇哦”的时刻。
SC: Can you wait?
[laugh]
SC：你能等待吗？[笑]
SN: I would love it to happen,
like I said, yesterday.
SN：就像我说的，我希望它昨天就发生了。
SC: I know. I know. And so the
galactics have never, or the Federation has never shown you what
exists beyond that point?
SC：我知道，我知道。那么，银河人从未或者银河联邦从未向你展示在那一点之后将存在什么？
SN: All they’ve said that exists
beyond that point is Earth creates its own galactic society, we
reunite with the people from Inner Earth, we recolonize all the
various planets, we return all of them to their full, pristine
level, and we create a brand new star nation.
SN：有关在那点之后存在着什么他们只说了，地球创造它自己的银河社会，我们与来自内部地球的人们重新团聚，我们重新居住在各种星球上，我们将所有他们回归到他们完全的、纯朴的水平，并且我们建立了一个全新的星际国度。
They leave up to us what we will
call it, they leave up to us its exact role. But they said the role
destined for us is to become this special key that unlocks doors,
that allows for the movement of people from galaxies far, far away
from us to come together and create intergalactic unions that then
come together and form even larger unions, that allows for this
galaxy to move itself, along with these thousands and millions and
billions of other galaxies, into the light.
我们称呼它为什么取决于我们，它确切的角色也取决于我们。但是，他们说，我们注定的角色是成为一把特殊的开门的钥匙，这使得离我们遥远的银河系的人们来聚到一起，创造星系间的团结，然后继续聚集形成更大的联盟，着使得这个银河系推动它自己，和这些上千的、上百万的、以及几十亿的其他银河系一块进入光中。
And one of the things that we
are going to do when we return to full consciousness is to be one
of the groups that helps create these keys that keeps unlocking
everything and moving it forward as the divine plan has so
decreed.
当我们回归到全意识时，我们将要做的一件事情是，称为这些团体中的一个，帮助创造这些钥匙，解锁一切并把它像神圣计划颁布的那样向前推进。
So, we have a very important
position to play. That position is a part of unfolding this divine
plan. So, because of that, that’s why everyone who comes here tells
about, we have a very special position. And that’s why it is so
important to the galaxy, and to the universe actually, the
physicality, that we move forward and become fully conscious
beings.
所以，我们有一个非常重要的位置要去扮演。这个位置是这个神圣计划展开的一部分。由于这个原因，那就是为什么没一个人跑到这来告诉我们，我们有一个非常重要的位置。那是为什么对银河系是如此重要，实际上是对宇宙、对我们向前推进并成为全意识存有的物理性来说非常重要。
SC: Now, Sheldan, your next
webinar is called Preparing for Disclosure. It’s on two different
dates, on the 26th and the 30th of August. And people can go to
your website, which is PAOweb.com. What are you going to be talking
about then, and when do you see Disclosure happening, and how do
you see it unfolding?
SC：现在，sheldan，你的下一个网络研讨会叫做为大揭露做准备。它在两个不同的日期举行，在8月26日和8月30日。人们可以去参加你的网络研讨会，在PAOweb.com.
那时你将要讨论什么，你认为大揭露会何时发生，你认为它会如何展开?
SN: I see Disclosure happening,
like I said, it’s at the most a few months away. It has not got a
lot of time left. There are people working very hard to create
films and documentaries about Disclosure. Disclosure
is…
SN：就像我说的那样，我认为大揭露发生在最后几个月之后。没剩下多少时间了。有一些人非常努力的工作来在制作有关大揭露的电影和文档。大揭露是…
SC: Some of them are ready now,
though, I’ve heard.
SC：我听说他们中的一些现在已经准备好了。
SN: Some of them are getting
readied right now. I suspect that in September and October,
November, we’re going to be deluged with stuff about Disclosure —
films, websites, et cetera. We have documentaries. We have a great
deal of pressure right now from the Galactic Federation for humans
who are dedicated to Disclosure to do their stuff, in other words,
to put together their materials, and to use it to make Disclosure
happen. Because that is the next step of what needs to happen, is
we need to have Disclosure.
SN:
他们中的一些现在已经准备好了。我怀疑在9月、10月、11月，我们将充满大揭露的东西——电影、网站等等。我们有文档。对于那些致力于大揭露的人类来说，我们现在有很大的来自银河联邦的压力，换句话说，整理他们的资料，使用它来使大揭露发生。因为那是下一步需要发生的事情，就是我们需要大揭露。
SC: Ummm. Well, I can actually
say that those of us working on the 2012 Scenario are doing exactly
that right now, gathering that information. But in terms of how you
see it unfolding, it’s basically going to be information flow
first?
SC：嗯，哦，我实际上可以说，我们中的工作在2012
Scenario网站上的那些人现在也正做着这些，收集信息。但是，按照你认为它展开的方式，它基本上是信息先流出？
SN: It’s going to be information
flow, and concurrent with that should be the changes in governance,
and the changes in the economic
system.
SN:
将会是信息流出，与那同时发生的应该是在政府中的变化，以及在经济系统中的变化。
SC: Umm. Which we’re all praying
for yesterday! [laugh] And in terms of what you’re going to be
talking about in your webinar, preparing, what… how… what do people
need to do?
SC：嗯。都是我们今天所祈求的！[笑]
就你将在你的网络研讨会中所谈到的内容，人们需要做什么？
SN: The most important thing
right now to prepare is to get over your fears about the fact that
there are other aspects of the human family that do not live on
planet Earth. They live either inside or they live outside in other
star nations that are very far away. Sirius is close, but you have
things like an Andromeda that are like a thousand light years away.
So you have, all over our galaxy you have humans that are coming to
visit us, because as we’ve been saying, the time has come for us to
switch from being in limited consciousness, which is how we now
live and exist, into being fully conscious beings, immortals,
basically, like the gods, physical angels. This is our true
state.
SN:
有其他方面的人类家人没有生活在地球上，现在要准备的最重要的事情是客服对这个事实的恐惧。他们要么生活在地球内部，要么生活在地球外面，生活在非常遥远的其他星际国度。天狼星很近，但是我们也有像仙女座那样一千光年那么远的。那么，整个我们的银河系都有人类来访问我们，因为我们一直在说，时间已经到了我们从一个有限意识的存有（这是我们现在生活和存在的状态）编程一个全意识的存有，不朽，基本上就像神、物理天使一样。这是我们真正的状态。
We are going to take the final
steps and allow us to become a full fledged, fully conscious being
who has then an even more great, greater task than we now have
right now. On this planet right now we’re attempting to change
certain things, a shift in consciousness. We’re now going to move
to an actual shift in physicality.
我们将完成最后步骤，使我们称为一个完全成熟的，完全意识的存有，然后，有一个比我们现在的任务更伟大、更伟大的任务。现在，在这颗星球上，我们正致力于改变某些事情，在意识上的转变。我们现在将移向一个在物理性上的实际转变。
How do we change this reality
that we live in, this great, incredible, almost infinite breadth of
space, how do we change into beings of higher consciousness, and
bring it all together so that we can turn all of physicality into
light? And that is our basic task.
我们如何改变这个我们居住的现实，这个伟大的、难以置信，几乎无限幅度的空间，我们如何改变进入更高意识的存在，把它都聚到一起，这样我们能够将所有物理性变成光？这是我们的基本任务。
And so my job, as well as
everyone else’s, when we become fully conscious, is to take our new
responsibilities and use it to unfold the divine plan, as we’ve
been saying all the way through this.
所以，当我们变成全意识，我的工作也是其他人的工作是承担我们新的责任并使用它来展开神圣计划，就像我们一直在说的那样。
SC: Well, speaking of your job,
what do you do when you’re not on the job? [laugh] What are your
interests? Because I know you and Colleen love movies.
SC：哦，说起你的工作，当你不做这个工作的时候，你做什么？ [笑]
你的兴趣是什么？ 因为我知道你和科林喜欢电影。
SN: Well, we try to watch some
conscious movies. We don’t really like violence that much. We try
to avoid all those kind of crazy movies. So we don’t get to go to a
lot of ’em.
SN：哦，我们试着观看一些意识的电影。我们真不太喜欢暴力。我们尽量避免各式各样的那种疯狂的电影。所以，我么不会去看许多电影。
SC: No, because there’s not many
left, are there? [laugh] And then what else do you like to
do?]
SN：不，因为没有许多事情剩下了，不是吗？[笑]
然后，你还想做其他什么？
SN: Another passion is
baseball.
SN：另外一个激情就是棒球。
SC: Oh, yes. Now, that, that is
an area. You, you… apparently you could, or you used to be able to
recite whole statistics because of your photographic memory. Is
that true?
SC：哦，是的。现在，那是一个领域。你显然可以，或者，你过去能够背诵整个统计学，因为你upi详细准确的记忆。是吧？
SN: That is correct. Yes. When I
was… when I was doing baseball in high school, et cetera, I had
people that would try to take the baseball encyclopedia and try to
have a special time to try to throw questions at me. And of course
they didn’t realize that I had memorized the entire book, so
anything they asked me I could recite it just as it would be in the
book.
SN：对。是的。当我…当我在高中的玩棒球的时候，有人拿着棒球百科全书并且试着找一段特定的时间问我问题考我。当然，他们没有意识到，我已经记下了整本书，所以，他们问我任何问题我都能照着书中原样背诵出来。
SC: The game that they used to
play with you, was that — what was it called?
SC：他们过去和你常常玩的游戏，——它叫什么名字？
SN: Try to stump me. And they
couldn’t.
SN：名字叫“尽力为难我”。（但是）他们没有办法。
SC: [laugh] So what, all the
other kids would come along and give you a question and see whether
you could get it right and wrong? And of course you were always
right.
SC：[笑]
其他小孩会来找你，问你一个问题，然后看你答的对还是错？当然你总是对的。
SN: I was always right, because
I had the book memorized.
SN：我总是对的，因为我记下了整本书。
SC: [laugh] So, did you play
baseball as a kid?
SC：[笑]。那么，小孩的时候你玩棒球吗？
SN: Yeah. I
did.
SN：是的，我过去玩。
SC: You did. And you used to go
to games all the time. So you don’t go to games as much as you used
to?
SC：你过去玩。你过去一直经常去参加比赛。那么，你现在不像过去那样去得那么多了。
SN: No. No. I’m unfortunately
living in an area right now that doesn’t have a major league
baseball team in it. So I watch it on the telly.
SN：不，不。不幸的是，我现在住在一个地区，没有一个重要的社团棒球队。所以，我在电视上看。
SC: Oh, just as good. And apart
from that, what other things do you use? Are you a gardener? Do you
listen to music?
SC：哦，也挺好。除了那之外，你还做其他什么事情？你是一个花匠吗?
你听音乐吗？
SN: Not as much as I used to. I
used to be really into music when I was a teenager and early
twenties. But not anymore.
SN：不像过去那样听得那么多。我在十几岁二十岁出头的时候，真的非常喜欢音乐。但是，现在不再那样了。
SC: Now, I asked you for a music
choice today, and you have chosen a song that, by sheer chance, a
lady I interviewed about five or six weeks ago, a channeler called
Fran Zepeda, also chose. So, what is that song? Who is it by? And
why did you choose it?
SC：现在，我让你为今天选一首音乐，你选了一首；恰巧，一个我大约5、6周之前采访的一位女士，一位通灵人Fran
Zepeda，也选了这首。这首歌是什么呢？她的作者是谁？你为什么选择它？
SN: The Beatles, John Lennon,
“Imagine.” I like it because it explains to people about another
reality: when people, as I’ve been talking about, are one; when the
world is not like it is now; when there’s a new reality. So I see
that song as being John Lennon’s attempt back in the
late….
SN：甲壳虫乐队，约翰.列侬,
“想象”。我喜欢它是因为它向人们解释了另一个现实：就像我说的那样，当人们成为一；当世界不像现在这样；当有一个新现实。所以，我把那首歌看作是约翰列侬在…晚期的尝试？
SC: Sorry, in the
late…?
SC：再说一次，在什么时候晚期？
SN: Well, in the late ’seventies
was when it was most popular among people, even though he created
it much earlier than that. But what I like about it is that it was
John Lennon’s attempt to explain to people about another reality.
And that’s when unfortunately he died. I knew he would… if he had
lived, he would have created I think much more advanced concepts in
songs, for lyrics, than he did with…pretty good right now, but I
think he would have gotten even better.
SN：哦，在70年代晚期，是这首歌在人们中最流行的时候，即使他创作它的时候比那早得多。但是，我喜欢它是因为它是约翰.列侬尝试向人民解释另外一个现实。那是他不幸去世的时候。我知道他会…如果他活着的话，我认为他会在歌曲里为歌词创作更多高级的概念，比他现在所做的更好。但是，我认为他会达到甚至更好。
I really feel that John Lennon
was going to be an incredible being when he got into his fifties
and sixties, but unfortunately that did not happen.
我真的感觉约翰.列侬在他到50岁、60岁的时候，将成为一个难以置信的存有，但是不幸的是那没有发生。
SC: Actually, in saying that, do
you think that the dark organized his assassination,
then?
SC：实际上，说起那个，你知道黑暗势力组织了对他的暗杀吗？
SN: They were trying to snuff
the light out of anything. And of course Lennon was one of the few
Beatles who actually understood what was happening. He knew about
the shift, he knew about consciousness. He was beginning to become
a person who was shifting his music to understand what
consciousness was. And that’s why I said, when he became older, I
felt for sure he was going to write a lot of incredible albums, a
lot of incredible songs in those albums, that would have allowed
people to really understand about consciousness.
SN：他们在尽力扼杀一切事物中的光。当然，列侬是几个甲壳虫乐队中一个实际上知道在发生着什么的人。他知道大转变，他知道意识。他开始成为一个转变他的音乐去理解意识是什么。那是为什么我说，当他再老一点使，我感觉他一定将写出许多难以置信的唱片，在那些唱片中有许多难以置信的歌曲，那会使人们真正懂得意识。
And so, to me it was a great
loss when he was assassinated. Exactly.
所以，对我来说，当它被暗杀的时候，对我来说，那是一个巨大的损失。确实。
SC: Umm. So for you “Imagine” is
about the song, and it’s showing the way forward and the world that
we can imagine, hopefully, before the end of this
year.
SC：嗯。对你来说“想象”是一首歌，它展示出前进的道路，并且那个我们能够想象的世界很有希望在今年之前出现。
SN: Hopefully, yes.
[laugh]
SN：有希望，是的。[笑]
SC: Well, Sheldan, I have so
much enjoyed getting to know you today. And I want to thank you so
much for sharing your very personal light agenda with all of
us.
SC：哦，sheldan，我是如此享受今天更加了解你。我非常感谢你与我们所有人分享你个人的光之议程。
Now, you can find out more about
Sheldan Nidle’s books, his e-books, his DVDs and of course his
webinar at PAOweb.com.
现在，你可以找到更多有关sheldan
nidle的书，他的电子书，他的DVD，当然还有他在PAOweb.con上的网络研讨会。
Now, next week we’ll be in the
middle of the harmonic convergence, and I’m hoping to talk about
this rare alignment with a special guest.
那么，下周，我们将会处于和谐收敛的中期，我希望与一个特殊的客人讨论这个罕见的校准。
Meanwhile, this is Stephen Cook,
and as always, in everything you do this week, may you only serve
the Light agenda. And please thank my very special guest today,
Sheldan Nidle.
同时，我是史蒂芬.库克，一直，你这周所做的每件事，祝愿你都能为光之议程服务。请感谢我今天非常特殊的客人，sheldan
nidle.
Sheldan, it has been an absolute
pleasure. Thank you so much.
Sheldan,
SN: And I want to say, I have
enjoyed this, Stephen. Maybe we can do this sometime in the near
future.
SN:
我想要说，我很喜欢这个，史蒂芬。也许我们未来还可以做这个采访。
SC: Oh, I hope so. That’d be
great! [laugh]
SC：哦，我希望如此。那太好了！[笑]
Well, here is Sheldan’s music
choice, “Imagine,” by John Lennon. Thank you, Sheldan.
哦，这是sheldan选择的音乐，“想象”，约翰.列侬所著。谢谢，sheldan。
SN: You have a great evening or
morning, whatever it is, wherever you are.
SN：祝你有一个美好的傍晚或早上，不管是什么，不管你在哪里。
Sheldan’s Song choice “Imagine
by John Lennon was played.
Sheldan’s website is
www.paoweb.com
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翻译：xiaohaozi0716
转载自“xiaohaozi0716
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青春就应该这样绽放 游戏测试：三国时期谁是你最好的兄弟！！ 你不得不信的星座秘密